To be backed or not!!

[Balloo]

I use oil of ulay every day ironside and I try to play as little on vc as possible now as im sure the 5 second pause before delivering the fatal river card was ageing me by 3 years every day

[Junior Senior]

No matter what peoples credentails are/were or whatever, would you really see backing a player a sound financial prospect? And what would the criteria be for you to take the plunge?

I mean I have won many online STT and MTT, the biggest "named" the 02:00am $4000 on crypto sites. Why not back me? whats the differance? (i dont want backing by the way)

My thinking is that the players asking for backing are not up to it and are entering the desperation stakes. And if a player was good enough to be back would be giving away a very small slice slice of the cake.

Interesting debate started joe and at first i didn't think i could add anything to the debate that wan't already covered by ariston, ironside and at-it but i have to disagree with you when you say 'players asking for backing are not up to it and are entering the desperation stakes'.  You never know people's situations and i would say there are a lot of players who if backed would get very good results on the circuit if they were put into most tournamenents throughout the year but because of a lack of backing and other priorities (family, work, mortgages, etc.) they simply cant afford to pay themselves into events.

I think saying that those that seek backing are not up to it is totally wrong.  Personally.. I have won a lot of money this year playing poker and have played quite a few european circuit events with good success but decided straight away that i would do the sensible thing and pay off all my debts with my winnings (car loans, overdrafts, credit cards, student loans etc) and i also set aside some money for a house deposit as i really wanted to move out of home this year.  Therefore since July i have not played any big circuit events as i wanted to be debt free and have also decided to buy a house and use the money to furnish and move in.  I am therefore pretty much starting out again where i was a few years ago - just playing the £50-£300 comps and trying hard to build up my bank roll to go play with the big boys again as i know given the backing and financial muscle i WOULD get results and my game would hold up - I, like ironside, mel and ariston et al would love a backer and feel that they would get a good ROI from my performances, i therefore feel your initial sweeper of a statement needs a little more thought as you never know what the situation or ability of the player is. Just because they need a backer doesn't mean to say they are not up to it!

as for the orignal poll question, if i had the money, a company that wuld benefit from exposure in the poker arena or a website where i could see a benfit from sponsoring or backing a player and i knew them to be trustworthy and a good face for the my product then i wouldn't hesitate in backing them.

thanks
Greg

[I KNOW IT]

That last paragraph of your is very intresting Junior, its something Ihave wondered of late.
What is the best for a sponsor.
A: A player who is consistantly cashing in events
or
B: A player who is not cashing regulary but promotes the company (i.e sponsors) well.

This question obviously only involves corporate sponsors not individual backers.

The person who I feel falls into group B is Simon Trumper, although he seems a little out of form of late, there is no harder working pro for his sponsors IMHO

[ariston]

I had forgoten all about this thread but a very good post by Greg there.
 My situation is that I gave up work last year to try and make it as a tournament pro- I have some very strange ideas about poker that have never been put in any books and I know some of my thought processes are completely different to how most people play tournaments. I started with a very small bankroll (around £1000) and intended playing small events. I quickly found myself winning satelittes to big events and cashed in my first 5k buyin tourney. It was at this time I started writing for betfair (a paid post which gives me a small monthly salary). I cannot write about some of my theories because to be honest I wouldn't want anybody to know them. I sailed along from one evnt to the next winning enough online to cover all expenses and buyins without getting the big result I needed to set things up. I could've made a living online but if I am honest I enjoy the big live events (even when you get runner runnered) and made a lot of friends on the circuit. One or two key hands have cost me the chance to cash big this year in major events but thats the way things go in tournament poker.
 After the world series I had a bad 2 months and that was the end of that. I am now not even in a position to play the smaller events. I know my game holds up against the best players but I do not have the finances to continue playing. If I was offered backing I would jump at the chance (either private backing or sponsorship) but I would not take advantage of friends. A few close friends have offered to stake me in a few events lately and I haven't taken them up on the offer because of various circumstances but I would never go with a begging bowl as other posters put in another thread. I will go back to work get a small bankroll together and start again and who knows what may happen in the next few weeks/months/years. Backing is part of the game no matter what anyone thinks and there will always be players backed at every major tournament. Even Gus Hansen has been backed in the last couple of years on a couple of occasions- anyone care to say this guy isn't good enough?

[I KNOW IT]

One of the differences between here and the USA concerning backers is other peoples attitude.
Over here, if someone is being backed ,the immediate response is "oh he must be skint!". where as in the USA
its " he must be good if hes got a backer".

Hasan Habib & Tuan Le  are both backed in tournys and look what they have won ,people ask & are asked to be backed for a number of reasons.
. With the every increasing entry fees this is going to be a more common practise on the live circuit, I just wish people would adopt the US attitude to the idea.

[TightEnd]

One of the differences between here and the USA concerning backers is other peoples attitude.
Over here, if someone is being backed ,the immediate response is "oh he must be skint!". where as in the USA
its " he must be good if hes got a backer".

Hasan Habib & Tuan Le  are both backed in tournys and look what they have won ,people ask & are asked to be backed for a number of reasons.
. With the every increasing entry fees this is going to be a more common practise on the live circuit, I just wish people would adopt the US attitude to the idea.

good honest posts in this thread today


it's a character thing...Brits look for the faults in things, Americans look for the opportunities

[Heid]

One of the differences between here and the USA concerning backers is other peoples attitude.
Over here, if someone is being backed ,the immediate response is "oh he must be skint!". where as in the USA
its " he must be good if hes got a backer".

Hasan Habib & Tuan Le  are both backed in tournys and look what they have won ,people ask & are asked to be backed for a number of reasons.
. With the every increasing entry fees this is going to be a more common practise on the live circuit, I just wish people would adopt the US attitude to the idea.

The UK psyche is always that of thinking negatively. I have a friend who was in the public eye - worldwide for something earlier this year, he's absolutely cacking himself for when the British press turns on him. He's been chased around by the press, and people recognise him in the street - but he knows it will change, because it is in the nature of the masses that people are negative.

We find it really difficult to be happy for people who do well - and lets face it.. if someone is backed, they have to be good to be backed, there are lotsof safer places to throw your money than into a tournament!

[TightEnd]

The UK psyche is always that of thinking negatively. I have a friend who was in the public eye - worldwide for something earlier this year, he's absolutely cacking himself for when the British press turns on him. He's been chased around by the press, and people recognise him in the street - but he knows it will change, because it is in the nature of the masses that people are negative.

Dale Winton?


do tell!

[Heid]

Nah Paul Dadge, but he will chortle when I tell him the Dale Winton one

Do a search on Paul Dadge

[TightEnd]

a right proper hero then, well done that man. Admirable stuff


I would like to ask why on earth the press would turn against him, but seeing as it's the British press, that might be classed a silly question.

[Heid]

He keeps getting rung up for quotes about anything terrorist related, and he's getting a bit peeved at it, especially as when he used to give comments, they went and printed stuff that had no direct corellation to what he actually said - so he has started saying no comment to stuff, and they are getting a bit antsy at him.

I don't think he quite realises how big it all is yet, it's not going to go away for a long long time - would scare the bejesus out of me to be honest. But he has been doing stuff like this for years - I've known him for about 8 years and he was always doing heroic stuff - I have already told him I am never getting on a tube train with him!

[Balloo]

"Just because they need a backer doesn't mean to say they are not up to it!" - Junior

I was not questioning anyones ability in my post, as I am sure your both very good players. What I was trying to show is that being a succesful poker professional is not only about playing good poker its about making sound decisions. Anyone who finds themselves in a situation where they are requiring backing is lacking in one of the areas required to be a professional. I wouldnt question Gus Hansens poker ability but clearly he does not make good decisions away from the table. He chose to play in a game that was above his bankroll and against players that are the best in the world in a number of disciplines he wasnt good at. Thats why he required backing. He went broke.

" I could've made a living online but if I am honest I enjoy the big live events " - Ariston

The point of playing poker professionaly is to make a living. Why didnt you choose to make it online? Obviously poker harbours something more for you than simply making money. I think this is the ego thing and the chance to become famous through playing poker. It is great fun to attend these big events but only if they fall within your bankroll limits. Seems like everyone wants that one big score and ignore the fact 90% go broke trying to get there.

[Heid]

" I could've made a living online but if I am honest I enjoy the big live events " - Ariston

The point of playing poker professionaly is to make a living. Why didnt you choose to make it online? Obviously poker harbours something more for you than simply making money. I think this is the ego thing and the chance to become famous through playing poker. It is great fun to attend these big events but only if they fall within your bankroll limits. Seems like everyone wants that one big score and ignore the fact 90% go broke trying to get there.

Interesting

I'd say that if Ariston likes doing it he should carry on - if you hate your job, you aren't going to do it well - if it is easy it will get boring - in order to do a job well, you have to be continually challenged.

That's probs why I am on a level plateau with my job - I am in ambivalent hell

[ariston]

" I could've made a living online but if I am honest I enjoy the big live events " - Ariston

The point of playing poker professionaly is to make a living. Why didnt you choose to make it online? Obviously poker harbours something more for you than simply making money. I think this is the ego thing and the chance to become famous through playing poker. It is great fun to attend these big events but only if they fall within your bankroll limits. Seems like everyone wants that one big score and ignore the fact 90% go broke trying to get there.

I have never been driven by money alone. My friends will confirm that if I was down to my last £50 and someone close to me needed it then they could have it. There is a lot more to life than money/material things. At 17 I was lucky enough to be earning £1k per week as a salesman and I spent every penny I earned. I looked after my family and friends and I cannot put a figure on how much I have wasted/blown over the years. If I wanted to invest/play it safe I couldve been very rich by now but I would not have had the experiences I have had in my life.
 When I was a child I was first injured very badly as a 10 year old and told I would never walk again- doctors don't know nothing I came close to a career as a professional basketball player a few years later. At 15 I had meningitis and was 50/50 to survive. When I couldn't play basketball anymore I took up hockey and broke alot of scoring records (I scored more goals in the year we won the olymipc gold than sean curly). After 9 years of hockey injuries did for me again so I took up stock car racing and raced in europes biggest races. I have always wanted to be the best at whatever I do and if I can't I don't do it anymore.

 I loved the big events because I wanted to play the best, simple as that. I have travelled the world this year funded by satelitte wins/poker wins and would not swap some of my experiences for anything. I do not wish to feed my ego or seek fame- I have had my 15 mins already and the people close to me are the only ones I want the respect of.  I am not interested in playing online poker 24/7 just to make a living- If I want to make a living I will go back to a career in sales where I can make a very good living.

I believe life is for living and I have no regrets on how I conducted the last 12 months of my poker career- like the rest of my life I have done what I wanted and enjoyed every day, you never know which day will be your last so enjoy today.

[Junior Senior]

"Just because they need a backer doesn't mean to say they are not up to it!" - Junior

I was not questioning anyones ability in my post, as I am sure your both very good players. What I was trying to show is that being a succesful poker professional is not only about playing good poker its about making sound decisions. Anyone who finds themselves in a situation where they are requiring backing is lacking in one of the areas required to be a professional. I wouldnt question Gus Hansens poker ability but clearly he does not make good decisions away from the table. He chose to play in a game that was above his bankroll and against players that are the best in the world in a number of disciplines he wasnt good at. Thats why he required backing. He went broke.

" I could've made a living online but if I am honest I enjoy the big live events " - Ariston

The point of playing poker professionaly is to make a living. Why didnt you choose to make it online? Obviously poker harbours something more for you than simply making money. I think this is the ego thing and the chance to become famous through playing poker. It is great fun to attend these big events but only if they fall within your bankroll limits. Seems like everyone wants that one big score and ignore the fact 90% go broke trying to get there.

I agree whole heartedly that bankroll management and game selection are essential skills in becoming a good poker player - and even more essential if one is attempting to make a living from the game.  However when financial pressures outside of the game and away from the table take priority and require the use of your hard earned dosh then it is difficult to continue to try and prove yourself in the big poker comps as you need high a disposable income and financial muscle to play in these comps and maintain your challenge.

therefore to your comment "Anyone who finds themselves in a situation where they are requiring backing is lacking in one of the areas required to be a professional" - i would again disagree.  if a good player who has no spare cash due to other more important financial commitments with which to start a bank roll bulding exercise cant afford to play an event it doesnt make them bad at a key element of the game it just means they are less fortunate than those with a high disposable income who can play bigger events and speculate to accumulate. - i guess it comes down to the old adage 'you need money to make money'.  If i returned an 80% profit in my $2 stt's and that was all i could afford and any winnings had to go towards food, bills etc. then i stand less chance of building a bank roll than someone who could enter a load of $500 sit n go's and return 25% profit that he could keep 100% of for further poker sessions.

it all depends on your situation - some are less fortunate than others and because someone is playing small stakes on the net and local £10 re-buy comps does not meen they cant play or lack the skills to become a good player.

my 2 pence... again!