apat structure

[turny]

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

And it did - live pro tournaments are crapshoots at the end. As Tikay said, APAT did the best they could and achieved what they set out to do - can't see how it could be improved.

In his PRO thread for Friday's $300 Blonde double-stack freezeout in which he finalled, Flushy commented on the great structure. With 8 players left the average stack was nearly 30BBs. How high a buy-in in a live event would you have to go to guarantee an average 30BB stack at a final table?

I bet it's a lot - not even WPT final tables get that.

andrew i dont understand the relevance of your last 2 paragraphs comparing a $300 online event with an apat tournament?

I was highlighting the structure that you can get in a £150 online event. A live £1000+ tournament would be more crapshooty. Therefore complaining that a £75 tournament gets a bit crapshooty seems to be not entirely fair.

i wasnt complaining,  wasn't playing so could hardly complain about something i never participated in. was just merely stating an observation (whether right or wrong)

comparing a online online tournament with an offline tournament is a tad unfair as well as they are two completely different beasts as you well know.

[AndrewT]

i wasnt complaining,  wasn't playing so could hardly complain about something i never participated in. was just merely stating an observation (whether right or wrong)

comparing a online online tournament with an offline tournament is a tad unfair as well as they are two completely different beasts as you well know.

I was comparing them to show how they are different, not how they are similar.

Live tournaments = crapshoots. Online tournaments = capable of much better structures.

APAT = live tournament, therefore crapshoot.

Compared to other live tournaments, I think APAT compared very favourably. When live players complain (other players, not you ) that a tournament has 'become a crapshoot' their expectations of what is achievable are, on the whole, unrealistic.

[turny]

not unrealistic in this case as plenty of extra time could be used to combat it.

but as tikay stated the aim of apat is to finish early so they provide the best structure they can in the time frame allowed.

they meet the requirements they set out to achieve that is a challenge in itself.

[lazaroonie]

I think the structure was excellent.

we could argue all day about the benefit of having a 150/300 level instead of a 75/150, but at the end of the day the structure that was in place encouraged poker to be played, and not just chip chucking all-in fest. From a personal point of view, the first time I uttered the words "all in" was on day 2, just before the final table.

Consider the fact that Brendan at the final table at one point was down to around 30K chips, and managed with some paitence to wait on the monster hands that got him out of trouble. That doesnt sound too crapshooty does it ?

[tikay]

not unrealistic in this case as plenty of extra time could be used to combat it.
but as tikay stated the aim of apat is to finish early so they provide the best structure they can in the time frame allowed.

they meet the requirements they set out to achieve that is a challenge in itself.

not unrealistic in this case as plenty of extra time could be used to combat it.

Well we are not prepared to increase the "budgeted" playing time beyond what we've stated, so it's not possible.

but as tikay stated the aim of apat is to finish early so they provide the best structure they can in the time frame allowed

That's our view, too.

Let me explain how the decision making process works. As to "front of shop" APAT Matters, the ideas, debates & decisions involve Des, Tighty, & myself.

My Role, as Chairman (Year One) is to represent the Members views & wishes, & I do that as well as I am able, & would, if need be, fight to the death to preserve them.

It was Des's original idea to keep the playing hours "civilised" for folks who are not used to staying up all night playing poker. I agree with that 100%, & I believe our Members are happy with that.

So, given that, we then had to design a structure which "fitted" & that we have done, pretty well I think. I believe it's as near perfect as we can get it, all things considered.

As Chairman, (representing the Members) I could not be happier with the way the Events have panned out in terms of Structure & playability, & yesterday was as good as it gets - a great Tourney, lots of play, especially at the sharp end, & everyone had a ball.

We will contine to listen to Member feedback as to structures, & may tweak them if need be. But I can't see us ever changing the overall timeframe within which we structure our Tourneys, at least, not during my tenure.

[Jon MW]

...if need be, fight to the death to preserve them...

Really? That would be cool.

What would your preferred weapon be in case of such a duel?

[TightEnd]

...if need be, fight to the death to preserve them...

Really? That would be cool.

What would your preferred weapon be in case of such a duel?

Postillions, one red, one black.

[Ironside]

i did comment at end of play on day 1 of the first APAT event that it seemed craphooty, few reasons for this

1) it was the first APAT event and it was a couple of levels in before people started getting bust
2) not as many runners as other events so not as many chips in play
3) i like to complain

but there is no way round this in the time offered to complete the comp other that to reduce the number of runners and i think everyone is hoping the number of runners will go up rather than down which will mean that the clock will have to be shorten to get it finished in time

on the structure though it would be great if we had time to fit in a 75/150 and a 150/300 level but seeing as there isnt time and we can only fit in 1 i think it would be better if we skipped the 75/150 level and had a 150/300 level it wong make much difference to the comp but make it feel more relaxing as the blinds start to bite

[Teacake]

on the structure though it would be great if we had time to fit in a 75/150 and a 150/300 level but seeing as there isnt time and we can only fit in 1 i think it would be better if we skipped the 75/150 level and had a 150/300 level it wong make much difference to the comp but make it feel more relaxing as the blinds start to bite

I agree with Iron on this one, i'd rather have a 150/300 than a 75/150 but that is only a minor quibble.
In the 2 events i've played it really only gets crapshooty in levels 8 & 9 when you lose more than 40 players & then it settles down but you have to start losing players at some point & how long do want to give the short stacks before they make a move?

Well done guys on another well run comp.

[RichD]

It's a great structure, and does allow lots of play , think it has a great balance that gets the tournie moving while still giving lots of play. Although I do admit the jump from 100/200 to 200/400 annoys me in ANY tournie, as its so steep!

[tikay]

It's a great structure, and does allow lots of play , think it has a great balance that gets the tournie moving while still giving lots of play. Although I do admit the jump from 100/200 to 200/400 annoys me in ANY tournie, as its so steep!

My sentiments exactly. My only complaint (?). It is quite a harsh jump at that stage of the tourney...

We will gladly take a look at that part of the structure. But if we "give" there, we'll have to "take" from somewhere else. It's a balance thing. Right now, the majority of the APAT Members seem happy with the "as is" structure judging from the feedback we are getting. Really, we want to finsh mid-to late Evening on Day Two, come what may.

[kinboshi]

Might not be possible, but could the tournaments not start 40 minutes earlier, or finish 40 minutes later on Day 1?  That would give the time for the additional level.  Hardly the end of the world not having the 150/300, but it would certainly be the cherry on the icing of the cake.

[tikay]

Might not be possible, but could the tournaments not start 40 minutes earlier, or finish 40 minutes later on Day 1?  That would give the time for the additional level.  Hardly the end of the world not having the 150/300, but it would certainly be the cherry on the icing of the cake.

Yes, I guess that's possible. An earlier start time is logistically awkward, as we have to get everyone into a quite often "strange" Venue, with all the time it takes to become a Member, & so thats quite "tight" in UK Licensed Venues, who rarely open pre-Noon.

Also, playing from 2.30 until Midnight-ish seems, to me, quite long enough for those not used to deep-stacked two day Tourneys. Msny of ouor Members are, well, "mature", if you get my drift.

A good point though, & we'll certainly take a good look at it.

[Teacake]

As was suggested earlier if you need to give something up then lose the 75/150.

Without exception the lack of 150/300 is the only (constructive) criticism I have seen or heard about the structure.

You know it makes sense