Liverpool FC

[The Baron]

Marco Reus must be a very long shot to move out of Germany to Liverpool in next two years btw.

This.

[arbboy]

With football i just deal with statistical facts as i use football more as a way to make money betting than to blindly follow a team off a cliff and not be able to see the wood for the trees like 99% of fans do of their club.

Most of the stuff i state is fact.  You are not an elite football club at world level as elite clubs are in the Champions League every season without fail (look at your recent big money signings - Torres/Carroll/Henderson/Downing/Suar).  You are a stepping stone club for the biggest players in the world (Torres/Suar are proof of this in the last 10 years no other players Liverpool have had could claim to be in that group and both have left Liverpool in the absolute prime to join bigger clubs. Going back further the same applied to Owen).  Only Gerrard's incredible loyalty to the city he grew up in stopped him leaving for Chelski 10 years ago.  In the last 15 years these 4 players are the only players Liverpool have had who were without doubt world class. (3 left in their prime for bigger clubs and Gerrard stayed) therefore i would be pretty safe to say Liverpool are a stepping stone club for world class players. Again that is fact not open to opinion.  You are odds on to not be in the Champions League in 2015/16.  Again this is fact.  You have a stadium 20/30k smaller than the vast majority of the elite clubs in the world which puts the club even further behind financially.  Again this is fact.

Happy as a troll to discuss with the scousers why any of the above facts/opinions are not true.

This is finally getting to some decent discussion instead of brainless baiting.

Owen loves(d) Liverpool. He is(was) a Liverpool fan, I'm not sure he was there from his youth as he saw it as a way to get to Madrid. Dropping Owen into this argument may look like a "fact" but the reality is he would have gone to maybe one club in the world at that time. Not quite so strong a "fact" really is it? It's lazy tbh.

Suarez went to Barcelona. I think most clubs accept, if you sign a potentially worldie South American/Spanish player (or Portugese in Utd's case) they will want to go to Spain at some stage to one of the big two.

Torres left a club that had been selling for 2-3 years and had almost gone bankrupt. He would have gone almost anywhere with a shot at the CL at that time. He was a Liverpool follower in Spain. Unfortunately for him he joined us during the darkest time in the club's history. I don't think he thought "I'll go to Liverpool to go to Chelsea"? Again very thin. IF Rooney goes to Chelsea last year would you argue Utd are smaller than Chelsea LOL!? I find your logic baffling.

FWIW both Owen and Torres were sold at the correct time. At 27 Suarez will not get better as a footballer. He will do well to run as well as he did last season. It's still a good signing for them but I am not unhappy at the sale.

Your argument isn't really statistics is it, it's boiled down to a few players leaving Liverpool (all totally explainable and actually good moves) and our stadium size. Oh and we bought badly so we're smaller than everyone else. I can happily argue by your logic that any club in England right now is essentially smaller than another European giant. That wouldn't make it fact though would it.

I'm happy to accept Liverpool aren't the strongest club in Europe this year (pretty logical) and also that top 4 will be us running well, but again when you say "I think (insert major statement derogatory about Liverpool)" then back it up with "you bought Downing and sold Torres to Chelsea and your stadium is 45,000 so you're screwed" well.... good luck with that.

IMHO Rodgers was the best signing we made this summer. The squad will be stronger and we've secured a guaranteed squad improvement on top of stadium improvement for the next few years thanks to this sale. We have one of the best owners and businessmen in the game. We're in the champions league. Commercial revenues were up hugely before this and they will keep growing. TV revenue was the highest in the league last year, people want to watch us over every other club. Anyone who thinks Liverpool are not in good shape are losing the plot a little, in my opinion of course.

lolzzzzzzzz.  Fans going to be fans i suppose.

[mondatoo]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Arbboy goes to another football fans thread to tell everyone they are idiots and he knows so much better, except when them "facts" of his turn out to be bullshit which he'll just conveniently ignore whilst spouting other bollocks.

NH WP, keep up the good work.

[The Baron]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Arbboy goes to another football fans thread to tell everyone they are idiots and he knows so much better, except when them "facts" of his turn out to be bullshit which he'll just conveniently ignore whilst spouting other bollocks.

NH WP, keep up the good work.

Yarp

[arbboy]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Arbboy goes to another football fans thread to tell everyone they are idiots and he knows so much better, except when them "facts" of his turn out to be bullshit which he'll just conveniently ignore whilst spouting other bollocks.

NH WP, keep up the good work.

Another fan of another deluded 'superpower' of English football. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Please correct me on which of my facts about liverpool were BS if you don't mind.

[The Baron]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Arbboy goes to another football fans thread to tell everyone they are idiots and he knows so much better, except when them "facts" of his turn out to be bullshit which he'll just conveniently ignore whilst spouting other bollocks.

NH WP, keep up the good work.

Another fan of another deluded 'superpower' of English football. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Please correct me on which of my facts about liverpool were BS if you don't mind.

I did. Above. You lolzzzzzzzzzzd it away which was a great response. Well done you.

[rinswun]

Interesting discussion. I have a question (I'm a Brentford fan so not trolling). Who are the bigger club, at this point - Liverpool or Arsenal?

[TL900]

http://media.giphy.com/media/GqZi964Bo9f0I/giphy.gif

[Ironside]

Interesting discussion. I have a question (I'm a Brentford fan so not trolling). Who are the bigger club, at this point - Liverpool or Arsenal?

rangers

[arbboy]

Last attempt to ask why my facts are incorrect.  I have spaced them out into individual facts to make it clear.  All i did was state 4 facts about liverpool.  I didn't make opinions or reasons why they are facts just that they are facts.  I didn't state whether suar/owen were good business to sell.  I just stated that they were sold to bigger clubs than liverpool when all 3 players were in the absolute physical peaks between 25-27.  

Fact 1 - You are not an elite football club at world level as elite clubs are in the Champions League every season without fail.  

Evidence - Liverpool missed the Champions League numerous times in the past 15 years.

Fact 2 -   You are a stepping stone club for the biggest players in the world (Torres/Suar are proof of this in the last 10 years no other players Liverpool have had could claim to be in that group and both have left Liverpool in the absolute prime to join bigger clubs. Going back further the same applied to Owen).  Only Gerrard's incredible loyalty to the city he grew up in stopped him leaving for Chelski 10 years ago.  In the last 15 years these 4 players are the only players Liverpool have had who were without doubt world class. (3 left in their prime for bigger clubs and Gerrard stayed) therefore i would be pretty safe to say Liverpool are a stepping stone club for world class players. Again that is fact not open to opinion.

Evidence - Liverpool have had only 4 no dispute world class players in the past 15 years.  Gerrard/Owen/Torres/Suar.  3 left for bigger clubs than Liverpool.  That is fact.  

Fact 3 - You are odds on to not be in the Champions League in 2015/16.  Again this is fact.  

Evidence - See oddschecker for a top 4 finish for proof.

fact 4 - You have a stadium 20/30k smaller than the vast majority of the elite clubs in the world which puts the club even further behind financially.

Evidence - Your stadium doesn't hold more than 50k fans.

[The Baron]

Last attempt to ask why my facts are incorrect.  I have spaced them out into individual facts to make it clear.  All i did was state 4 facts about liverpool.  I didn't make opinions or reasons why they are facts just that they are facts.  I didn't state whether suar/owen were good business to sell.  I just stated that they were sold to bigger clubs than liverpool when all 3 players were in the absolute physical peaks between 25-27.  

Fact 1 - You are not an elite football club at world level as elite clubs are in the Champions League every season without fail.  

Evidence - Liverpool missed the Champions League numerous times in the past 15 years.

Fact 2 -   You are a stepping stone club for the biggest players in the world (Torres/Suar are proof of this in the last 10 years no other players Liverpool have had could claim to be in that group and both have left Liverpool in the absolute prime to join bigger clubs. Going back further the same applied to Owen).  Only Gerrard's incredible loyalty to the city he grew up in stopped him leaving for Chelski 10 years ago.  In the last 15 years these 4 players are the only players Liverpool have had who were without doubt world class. (3 left in their prime for bigger clubs and Gerrard stayed) therefore i would be pretty safe to say Liverpool are a stepping stone club for world class players. Again that is fact not open to opinion.

Evidence - Liverpool have had only 4 no dispute world class players in the past 15 years.  Gerrard/Owen/Torres/Suar.  3 left for bigger clubs than Liverpool.  That is fact.  

Fact 3 - You are odds on to not be in the Champions League in 2015/16.  Again this is fact.  

Evidence - See oddschecker for a top 4 finish for proof.

fact 4 - You have a stadium 20/30k smaller than the vast majority of the elite clubs in the world which puts the club even further behind financially.

Evidence - Your stadium doesn't hold more than 50k fans.

All answered before. Yawn.

[Ironside]

Fact 1 - You are not an elite football club at world level as elite clubs are in the Champions League every season without fail. 

Evidence - Liverpool missed the Champions League numerous times in the past 15 years.

sory but by whose definition is that what makes an elite club?

IMHO too many teams get into the ECL every season because there leagues are weak

IMHO a team needs to have won the ECL recently to be elite liverpool meet that

[arbboy]

Last attempt to ask why my facts are incorrect.  I have spaced them out into individual facts to make it clear.  All i did was state 4 facts about liverpool.  I didn't make opinions or reasons why they are facts just that they are facts.  I didn't state whether suar/owen were good business to sell.  I just stated that they were sold to bigger clubs than liverpool when all 3 players were in the absolute physical peaks between 25-27.  

Fact 1 - You are not an elite football club at world level as elite clubs are in the Champions League every season without fail.  

Evidence - Liverpool missed the Champions League numerous times in the past 15 years.

Fact 2 -   You are a stepping stone club for the biggest players in the world (Torres/Suar are proof of this in the last 10 years no other players Liverpool have had could claim to be in that group and both have left Liverpool in the absolute prime to join bigger clubs. Going back further the same applied to Owen).  Only Gerrard's incredible loyalty to the city he grew up in stopped him leaving for Chelski 10 years ago.  In the last 15 years these 4 players are the only players Liverpool have had who were without doubt world class. (3 left in their prime for bigger clubs and Gerrard stayed) therefore i would be pretty safe to say Liverpool are a stepping stone club for world class players. Again that is fact not open to opinion.

Evidence - Liverpool have had only 4 no dispute world class players in the past 15 years.  Gerrard/Owen/Torres/Suar.  3 left for bigger clubs than Liverpool.  That is fact.  

Fact 3 - You are odds on to not be in the Champions League in 2015/16.  Again this is fact.  

Evidence - See oddschecker for a top 4 finish for proof.

fact 4 - You have a stadium 20/30k smaller than the vast majority of the elite clubs in the world which puts the club even further behind financially.

Evidence - Your stadium doesn't hold more than 50k fans.

All answered before. Yawn.

I am done.  You can't argue with fans they always know best even though they can't see the woods for the trees. You didn't state whether my facts are correct or not you provided justifications why players were sold.  Please state which of my 4 facts are incorrect and why they are incorrect.

[DaveShoelace]

I'm a neutral who has loved watching Liverpool over the last 18 months, really wanted them to win the Prem and IMO if they had it would have catapulted them back to being an elite team.

However, I generally agree with arbboy (just not in the same goady manner).

Except for

Evidence - Liverpool have had only 4 no dispute world class players in the past 15 years.  Gerrard/Owen/Torres/Suar.  3 left for bigger clubs than Liverpool.  That is fact.  

dispute

[kinboshi]

Alonso is/was world class as well.