The God Delusion - by Richard Dawkins

[FlyingPig]

Will you go through any of these 'rituals' with your children?

[AndrewT]

Will you go through any of these 'rituals' with your children?

I'd have thought the answer to that that was fairly obviously no.

Again, what's your point?

[Tragic]

His point (I hope) is how religion has shaped much of our modern custom and moral value in society, religion has provided something that has kept communities together and enabled people to coexist peacefully. Of course religion by now has largely fallen away as such custom has come accepted without the need to remember exactly where it came from. Evolution. I should stress at this point that I am in no way religious. Any viewpoint can be used as a vehicle for violence, not just religion, it is conflicting belief, not specific to religious belief, that causes conflict, just as a devout "scientologist", or whatever, may one day decide the only way to assert his correct views is to kill all religious people. Nationalism, socialism, facism, far more modern ideas, equally if not more destructive. We are continuously growing up, you may not like it but "people" in their communal sense require "security blankets" be that belief, or entertainment, perhaps a mindless addiciton to poker? .

[fearisthekey]

sorry tragic crossed post.

This is a must read, hilarious and pretty accurate imho:

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

[AndrewT]

His point (I hope) is how religion has shaped much of our modern custom and moral value in society,

Actually, his point is the exact opposite. If you bother to read the holy texts, you'll find that their advice on how to lead our lives is horrific and barbaric, and that even religious people don't live their lives like that.

[johnbhoy76]

Tragic, religion is simply humanaity's security blanket. Something which provided comfort when we were new in the world but something which is to be discarded as we grow up.

We have now grown up.

Have we though?

I mean what is religion being replaced by?

People now worship David Beckham or Jade Goodie more than Jesus Christ. I'm not a particularly religous person but I don't see that trade off as a good thing.

Yes attendances at Churches all over Britain have been dwindling for years now but as a society are we any better off? Are people happy?

Some people have gone the other way however. The rise of Muslim extremists in the middle east & Christian Fundamentalists in the USA is very scary

[fearisthekey]

Argument from fat racist BB contestant.

Jade Goodie is a poor replacement for Jesus Christ.
Jesus was cool
Therefor God exists.

Take that Shilpa! Thwak.

[FlyingPig]

I am a Catholic, I am neither barbaric or live in the dark ages... I chose my belief, I do not force it upon anyone else. Nor am I stupid for choosing it.

I really honestly think that there are such a small amount of atheists & agnostics who do not practice religious rituals......

[Tragic]

Of course, as I said I have read 'The End of Faith'. But you are simply examining the flaws and ignoring the good advice. For something written two thousand years ago there's alot of decent moral advice. Religion has questioned these violent passages and gone, yeah, O.K. that's a bit silly. Science has done the same, it doesn't make science wrong because Ptolemy got the earth's diameter seriously wrong does it? You are imagining a word where everyone is above average intelligence, obviously impossible, and where everyone wants the same thing. Your views are based on realism provided by scientific fact, but your proposed implementation is not. Everyone's utopia is different, as is every Christian's vision of heaven. Society will hopefully continue to evolve but you cannot for a second realistically believe the world could drop all it's "ignorant" beliefs and become purely scientific?

[fearisthekey]

I am a Catholic, I am neither barbaric or live in the dark ages... I chose my belief, I do not force it upon anyone else. Nor am I stupid for choosing it.

I really honestly think that there are such a small amount of atheists & agnostics who do not practice religious rituals......

Do you think if you had been born into a muslim family and brought up in the islamic tradition you probably would have reached your teens, seen the light, and converted to Roman Catholicism?

[Tragic]

I am a Catholic, I am neither barbaric or live in the dark ages... I chose my belief, I do not force it upon anyone else. Nor am I stupid for choosing it.

I really honestly think that there are such a small amount of atheists & agnostics who do not practice religious rituals......

Do you think if you had been born into a muslim family and brought up in the islamic tradition you probably would have reached your teens, seen the light, and converted to Roman Catholicism?

Lol. Another good point though, everyone is a product of their social background in the main, and therefore views will differ based on our own experiences. Therefore to expect to impose a uniform solution is impossible, religion is actually quite remarkable in its influence and has obviously provided something useful and uniting. Do not think for a second I condone any kind of terrorism, but modern Britian minus religion has hardly provided a nation of peace loving teenagers hoping to transcend the gloomy confines of ignorance.

[fearisthekey]

Of course, as I said I have read 'The End of Faith'. But you are simply examining the flaws and ignoring the good advice. For something written two thousand years ago there's alot of decent moral advice. Religion has questioned these violent passages and gone, yeah, O.K. that's a bit silly. Science has done the same, it doesn't make science wrong because Ptolemy got the earth's diameter seriously wrong does it? You are imagining a word where everyone is above average intelligence, obviously impossible, and where everyone wants the same thing. Your views are based on realism provided by scientific fact, but your proposed implementation is not. Everyone's utopia is different, as is every Christian's vision of heaven. Society will hopefully continue to evolve but you cannot for a second realistically believe the world could drop all it's "ignorant" beliefs and become purely scientific?

The uninvestigated life is not worth living. I'd rather live like an informed pig than an ignorant king.

[Tragic]

Of course you would, but do you deny alot of people are happy just experiencing their own means of enjoyment?

[AndrewT]

Of course, as I said I have read 'The End of Faith'. But you are simply examining the flaws and ignoring the good advice. For something written two thousand years ago there's alot of decent moral advice. Religion has questioned these violent passages and gone, yeah, O.K. that's a bit silly. Science has done the same, it doesn't make science wrong because Ptolemy got the earth's diameter seriously wrong does it? You are imagining a word where everyone is above average intelligence, obviously impossible, and where everyone wants the same thing. Your views are based on realism provided by scientific fact, but your proposed implementation is not. Everyone's utopia is different, as is every Christian's vision of heaven. Society will hopefully continue to evolve but you cannot for a second realistically believe the world could drop all it's "ignorant" beliefs and become purely scientific?

None of that means God exists, though, does it?

'The Bible has some non-violent passages, therefore, God exists.'

[Tragic]

And none of it doesn't . And so agnostic not atheist.