British and Christian and Proud

[Muahahahaha]

Carey urges immigration control 
 
Lord Carey says Christian identity remains important in Britain
Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey has called for tighter controls on immigration when Gordon Brown becomes prime minister.
He told the BBC the issue would "not go away" and that stricter controls were needed alongside clemency for refugees.

Lord Carey also urged Mr Brown not to forget "the importance of Christian identity" to the UK population.

The Refugee Council said he was out of step with other religious groups and that controls were already strict.

This is a problem I seem to have caught since Blair has been in power.  When I was younger I was very happy supporting any minority group that Maggie was trying to dump on.  Women, gays, immigrants, miners all needed more rights.  I supported Red Ken and listened to Billy Bragg.

By nowadays I seem to be a racist old git.  I don't feel any different in myself, and believe I'm still as sympathetic to minority views as I ever was.

But I live down south, and the changes that have occurred in the last ten years are beginning to worry me.  Not so much for now, but what will happen if things continue to change at the same rate.

Nowadays we have immigration, asylum, and migrant workers.  My fears are that we have such a shit infrastructure at the moment, surely putting more & more people into it can only make it worse.

I understand that we shouldn't have a limit to the people we let into this country, but looking at it from a purely selfish/practical viewpoint.

We have in place the governments plans to builds tens of thousands of affordable homes.  Which will increase the population.  But they are trying to close the local hospital.   Last year we had a hosepipe ban, because the local water supplies are too low to look after the local population. 

Just a couple of examples, admittedly, but wouldn't it be better to get the infrastructure working efficiently, before we increase the burden on it ?

I'm not saying immigration is bad, but the government don't seem to have accurate figures for the increase in population over the last ten years.  I worry that such shortsightedness will create long term problems.

If someone can put my mind at rest, I'd be very grateful.

PS - Religion.  Personally I don't care about religion, love God, hate religion.   I think more people die in the name of religion than anything else.  but I can understand the old boy's worry.  The head of this country is Queenie, she is head of the church in England, and she's a proddy.  So he wants to keep his own team on top of the pile.  But something to ponder ;

Religions: Christians 33.03% (of which Roman Catholics 17.33%, Protestants 5.8%, Orthodox 3.42%, Anglicans 1.23%), Muslims 20.12%, Hindus 13.34%, Buddhists 5.89%, Sikhs 0.39%, Jews 0.23%, other religions 12.61%, non-religious 12.03%, atheists 2.36% (2004 est.)  [ Figures from https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html ]

Why not just let everyone that wants to be religious be a Muslim, and all the problems of religious war, solved.

My invoice is in the post.

[Snatiramas]

As a nice jewish boy I have a problem with this one. oh and by the way if the radical muslims get their way we all will be. Please note the use of the word radical. Like the radical factions of all religious groups and I do mean all their paradise means inflicting their views on others regardless

[kinboshi]

Nowadays we have immigration, asylum, and migrant workers. 

I don't understand your point here.  Immigration into the UK isn't a new thing, it's always been the case, especially after WWII. 

As for asylum seekers - what do you recommend we do?

[The Dundonian]

It's a silly arguement to say you are not British, you are as much British as you are European, denying the fact does not change it. British is a collective description of the people who live in the British Isles, likewise European is a collective for people who live on the continent of Europe.
However neither British or European can be used to describe your nationality, you are either Scots, English or Welsh, nationalities we can all be and should be proud of.
As for religon being linked with nationality, it seems about as sensible as putting ice cubes in your coffee. Religon is about faith and belief and holds no concept of nationhood (IMO).
I am a strong ,pro-active Scottish nationalist, however I hold no truck with anti-English sentiment. The English people have fought and died beside us for 300 years and whatever the future holds, as far as independence is concerned, they will continue to be our closest, strongest and most loyal ally.

[Geo the Sarge]

It's a silly arguement to say you are not British, you are as much British as you are European, denying the fact does not change it. British is a collective description of the people who live in the British Isles, likewise European is a collective for people who live on the continent of Europe.
However neither British or European can be used to describe your nationality, you are either Scots, English or Welsh, nationalities we can all be and should be proud of.
As for religon being linked with nationality, it seems about as sensible as putting ice cubes in your coffee. Religon is about faith and belief and holds no concept of nationhood (IMO).
I am a strong ,pro-active Scottish nationalist, however I hold no truck with anti-English sentiment. The English people have fought and died beside us for 300 years and whatever the future holds, as far as independence is concerned, they will continue to be our closest, strongest and most loyal ally.

Good post, couldn't agree more.

geo

[Rod Paradise]

its more part of 'Britain' than Scotland could ever be

There is no doubt that you are now officially madasahatstand. I know lets build a great big wall and split Scotland off. What piffle and nonsense. Next you will tell me that you are not European maybe? The great thing that I have found about these fervent separatists is that they are well balanced. They have a chip on each shoulder. Time to move on. I suggest maybe reading the classic book "who moved my cheese" to broaden your horizons

Funny enough most Scots 'separatists' are very pro-Europe. Don't think you can say that about the majority of fervent unionists, so perhaps broadening of horizons was wished on the wrong people?

Fair points all but the viewpoint of not identifying oneself as British does produce some interesting questions........ the Olympics for example. Do you cheer for only the Scottish athletes? Personally I have never had a problem cheering for Scottish sports teams or athletes and yet so many Scots seem to have a problem cheering for an English team or athlete? Why is this?

No real problem with the Olympics (it's more individuals anyway) I'm not standing up to the anti-Scot song though . I'm also a huge fan of the Lions when up against the Springboks/All Blacks/Wallabies.

The main reason Scots seem to have for not supporting the English is Schadenfreude & the English media. Despite the title being the BBC, at any sporting occaision they become the EBC in a flash, seeing their jingoism rewarded with a defeat is extremely gratifying I'm afraid.

[fearisthekey]

It's a silly arguement to say you are not British, you are as much British as you are European, denying the fact does not change it. British is a collective description of the people who live in the British Isles, likewise European is a collective for people who live on the continent of Europe.
However neither British or European can be used to describe your nationality, you are either Scots, English or Welsh, nationalities we can all be and should be proud of.
As for religon being linked with nationality, it seems about as sensible as putting ice cubes in your coffee. Religon is about faith and belief and holds no concept of nationhood (IMO).
I am a strong ,pro-active Scottish nationalist, however I hold no truck with anti-English sentiment. The English people have fought and died beside us for 300 years and whatever the future holds, as far as independence is concerned, they will continue to be our closest, strongest and most loyal ally.

That's nice. As long as we can keep the oil, we'll be the best of friends.

If you had to pick between Afghanistan and Britain, which would you say was the most christian country?

[fearisthekey]

I kind of like the relatively lukewarm religious state that the UK is in at the moment, won't be like this in 20 years, for sure.

It's like, we were very Christian in the past, which gave us strong education, some moral principles, altruism, and some nice buildings. We're left with that in our culture, but we no longer have the downside, namely the religious beliefs themselves, except for a minority of the population.

Take Northern Ireland, for example. There is just no way the bombings and shootings would have stopped were it not for the fact that 'Catholicism' and 'Protestantism' there is zero to do with almost anyone's religious faith, but really a tribal thing contingent upon which tribe you happened to be born in. Had these people actually been *practising devout religious folk* (like Sunnis and Shia in Iraq), there would still be a daily -fest in red and black and tan.

Gerry Adams, leader of the CATHOLIC christian clan, talking about his deep faith:

When Third Way Magazine asked Adams whether he was a Christian he said: 'I like the sense of there being a God, and I do take succour now from the collective comfort of being at a Mass or another religious event where you can be anonymous and individual – just a sense of community at prayer and of paying attention to that spiritual dimension which is in all of us; and I also take some succour in a private, solitary way from being able to reflect on those things.

-----
For sure, I don't want to get into any debate about irish sectarianism, but I think it illustrates just how shallow actual christian identities are in the UK.
In Glasgow, an atheist is still someone who goes to an Old Firm game to watch the football....

[Muahahahaha]

Nowadays we have immigration, asylum, and migrant workers. 

I don't understand your point here.  Immigration into the UK isn't a new thing, it's always been the case, especially after WWII. 

As for asylum seekers - what do you recommend we do?

No.  What I'm saying is that this governement ponces around with definitions and statistics so much, that I, for one, don't trust anything they say about pretty much anything.  To me it doesn't matter how many of each we have coming in to the country, what's the overall figure.  I hear so much scaremongering in the crappy media about how many millions have come in over the last 10 years that I want ONE honest politician to stand up & explain it to me in simple accurate figures. ( like that's even remotely possible )

When it comes to asylum.  No problem.  But when does an asylum seeker become an immigrant ?  Also, how many asylum seekers ever return to their original country ?  And if we give asylum to people escaping from one regime, then demolish that regime, do we give asylum to the original bad guys, who now need asylum from the the new regime ?

I may be stupid & easily confused, but it all seemed so much simpler when I was younger.  Is that Blair's fault, or mine ?

[happybhoy]

[quote author=Snatiramas link=topic=24979.msg506300#msg506300
Fair points all but the viewpoint of not identifying oneself as British does produce some interesting questions........ the Olympics for example. Do you cheer for only the Scottish athletes? Personally I have never had a problem cheering for Scottish sports teams or athletes and yet so many Scots seem to have a problem cheering for an English team or athlete? Why is this?
[/quote]
The same reason everyone in England wasn't cheering on Man Utd in the CL final, using sporting rivalries to insinuate racism isn't big or clever.

[kinboshi]

Fair points all but the viewpoint of not identifying oneself as British does produce some interesting questions........ the Olympics for example. Do you cheer for only the Scottish athletes? Personally I have never had a problem cheering for Scottish sports teams or athletes and yet so many Scots seem to have a problem cheering for an English team or athlete? Why is this?

The same reason everyone in England wasn't cheering on Man Utd in the CL final, using sporting rivalries to insinuate racism isn't big or clever.

Or was it because they weren't in the final?

[happybhoy]

Fair points all but the viewpoint of not identifying oneself as British does produce some interesting questions........ the Olympics for example. Do you cheer for only the Scottish athletes? Personally I have never had a problem cheering for Scottish sports teams or athletes and yet so many Scots seem to have a problem cheering for an English team or athlete? Why is this?

The same reason everyone in England wasn't cheering on Man Utd in the CL final, using sporting rivalries to insinuate racism isn't big or clever.

Or was it because they weren't in the final?

bollox

 

[Ironside]

if your scottish you are british whether you like it or not

personally i would love to see an independant scotland the sooner the better

although presently i am a proud scot and a proud brit

and yes scotland will allways be part of the british isle not matter what government changes are made

[raab11]

not only do i not cheer on english athletes representing britain, i dont cheer on scots representing britain.

i prefer any country to win over brit athletes, including germany argentina iraq...you get the point.

ironside is right at the moment us scots are brittish wether we like it or not. i for one though dont. this is why i cant offer support to those who choose to represent
the archaic institution that is 'great' britain.

[Ironside]

not only do i not cheer on english athletes representing britain, i dont cheer on scots representing britain.

i prefer any country to win over brit athletes, including germany argentina iraq...you get the point.

ironside is right at the moment us scots are brittish wether we like it or not. i for one though dont. this is why i cant offer support to those who choose to represent
the archaic institution that is 'great' britain.

I choose to represent the BRITISH armed forces and if given the chance i still would
i class myself as a scot looking for independace but even after independace i feel we
should have a united armed forces

even after indendance we will still be british after all we live on the british isles

yes we would be an independant country but we would still be british as much as we are all europeans as we live in europe