The end..

[fearisthekey]

unexpected consequences of the ban, pretty funny (global warming, new smokers.....)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6664871.stm

[Indestructable]

Had to laugh at Andy Hughes, you can't make this stuff up but there really are people like this.   

[fearisthekey]

Had to laugh at Andy Hughes, you can't make this stuff up but there really are people like this.   

"being an asthmatic, I had always been against smoking" (wheeeze)

Loved this, talk about nanny state:

"Environmental groups say the heaters are energy-hungry and their advice is simple - if it's cold outside, wear a coat." But where do I put these arms things, do they go in the big holes at the side? And this hat thing you gave me, it goes on my head, does it?

[Dingdell]

They have a cage at the G casino Luton ready for the smokers so they can go outside the back door but not allow anyone else to get in. I am very tempted to get some bananas and feed them through the bars 

They are also giving out wrist bands so you can go out the front and not have to check in again at reception. A lot of the guys last night said they were using the ban to help them give up. i think it's all good.

[CelticGeezeer]

They have a cage in Coventry, it looks like some thing from a zoo, it is accessed via an old fire escape and is located in the car park with anti ram raiders bollards. There is going to be some piss taking Monday, I think I will bring my camera.

[pffa]

I am a smoker.   I would like to stop smoking.  Since being ill and on bed rest I only smoke more.  However,  I disagree with the ban.  Not because I mind going outside I dont.  There are many reasons why I think the owner of certain permises should be allow to choose whether their establishment is smoking or non smoking.

We have a cafe in town,  it is always full.   Nearly all of the customers smoke  there are many non smoking cafes in the town.   Doesnt the man have the right to choose how he runs his business.   My father for many years had a pub, not a trendy kiddies pub but a darts and dominoes old timers pub.  Roll ups cigars and a lounge for the women.  My father would have lost 3/4 of his trade.  How many pensioners, many who fought for the country and were issued tabacco by the armed forces should now be forced to stand in a cage.

[Dingdell]

I am a smoker.   I would like to stop smoking.  Since being ill and on bed rest I only smoke more.  However,  I disagree with the ban.  Not because I mind going outside I dont.  There are many reasons why I think the owner of certain permises should be allow to choose whether their establishment is smoking or non smoking.

We have a cafe in town,  it is always full.   Nearly all of the customers smoke  there are many non smoking cafes in the town.   Doesnt the man have the right to choose how he runs his business.   My father for many years had a pub, not a trendy kiddies pub but a darts and dominoes old timers pub.  Roll ups cigars and a lounge for the women.  My father would have lost 3/4 of his trade.  How many pensioners, many who fought for the country and were issued tabacco by the armed forces should now be forced to stand in a cage.

1. Knowledge about smoking is different now then when they issued tobacco. What happened before is irrelevant - the government issuing tobacco was wrong but they didn't know that. If we don't embrace and act on new information men would still use pig skins instead of condoms.....

2. They don't have to stand in a cage - they can choose to leave the building if they want. Their choice if they want to smoke.

3. In Ireland the pub trade hasn't suffered, in fact I would be keener to return to Ireland now because going to a pub was much more enjoyable than before the ban. I am much more likely to go out for a drink than I was before.

4. No one is stopping ayone else from smoking - just not in my face and to the detriment of my health. If someone sat at a casino and chose to poke you with a sharp stick while sitting nextdoor to you you would have cause for complaint, although it's probably doing you less harm than a smoker sitting next door puffing away.

[fearisthekey]

If we don't embrace and act on new information men would still use pig skins instead of condoms.....

please PM me if you have any more details about this

[pffa]

Im not saying that you as a non smoker shouldnt have a choice.  Im saying as the owner of a business the owner should have a choice.  Then I as a smoker would have a choice.

As it is my choice is to go into a non smoking establishment and stand outside or in a cage.  In my opinion no choice at all.


Whilst I appreciate we are better educated these days it doesnt change the fact that my 90 year old grandmother would now be treated like a second class citizen, imo, she smoked roll ups all her life, she fought for her country, the fed her addiction in war times and now she has to stand outside or in a cage to enjoy her only vice.

I agree in principle you shouldnt have to suffer passive smoking I just think this is the wrong way forward.  

[kinboshi]

Im not saying that you as a non smoker shouldnt have a choice.  Im saying as the owner of a business the owner should have a choice.  Then I as a smoker would have a choice.

As it is my choice is to go into a non smoking establishment and stand outside or in a cage.  In my opinion no choice at all.


Whilst I appreciate we are better educated these days it doesnt change the fact that my 90 year old grandmother would now be treated like a second class citizen, imo, she smoked roll ups all her life, she fought for her country, the fed her addiction in war times and now she has to stand outside or in a cage to enjoy her only vice.

I agree in principle you shouldnt have to suffer passive smoking I just think this is the wrong way forward. 

Staff don't have a choice.

[ifm]

I am a smoker.   I would like to stop smoking.  Since being ill and on bed rest I only smoke more.  However,  I disagree with the ban.  Not because I mind going outside I dont.  There are many reasons why I think the owner of certain permises should be allow to choose whether their establishment is smoking or non smoking.

We have a cafe in town,  it is always full.   Nearly all of the customers smoke  there are many non smoking cafes in the town.   Doesnt the man have the right to choose how he runs his business.   My father for many years had a pub, not a trendy kiddies pub but a darts and dominoes old timers pub.  Roll ups cigars and a lounge for the women.  My father would have lost 3/4 of his trade.  How many pensioners, many who fought for the country and were issued tabacco by the armed forces should now be forced to stand in a cage.

1. Knowledge about smoking is different now then when they issued tobacco. What happened before is irrelevant - the government issuing tobacco was wrong but they didn't know that. If we don't embrace and act on new information men would still use pig skins instead of condoms.....

2. They don't have to stand in a cage - they can choose to leave the building if they want. Their choice if they want to smoke.

3. In Ireland the pub trade hasn't suffered, in fact I would be keener to return to Ireland now because going to a pub was much more enjoyable than before the ban. I am much more likely to go out for a drink than I was before.

4. No one is stopping ayone else from smoking - just not in my face and to the detriment of my health. If someone sat at a casino and chose to poke you with a sharp stick while sitting nextdoor to you you would have cause for complaint, although it's probably doing you less harm than a smoker sitting next door puffing away.

Interesting, i saw a program about the Irish pub trade that said it was devastated by the ban.
Also there is STILL no proven link between lung cancer and smoking, passive or otherwise.
It increases the risk but not particularly significantly actually.
Before everyone jumps on their soapbox i'm not saying it's all good just some manipulation of facts is all.

[The_nun]

Im not saying that you as a non smoker shouldnt have a choice.  Im saying as the owner of a business the owner should have a choice.  Then I as a smoker would have a choice.As it is my choice is to go into a non smoking establishment and stand outside or in a cage.  In my opinion no choice at all.

But that is it ..you do have a choice until now.. non smokers do not have the chioce..if they choose to stay smoke free, that means staying at home. At least this way smokers and non smokers can enter the same enviroment enjoy the place and the smokers can go to an allocated space where they can ruin only thier own bodies, then return to the clean enviroment to enjoy the rest of the evening.
I agree in principle you shouldnt have to suffer passive smoking I just think this is the wrong way forward.  

Who is to say that over a period of time , say 12 months public houses /casinos ..ie what have allowed smoking enviroments,  will not see an increase in custom from non smoking folk who have chose in the past to avoid these areas due to smokers. I know for one I absolutley hate comeing home after an evening out stinking of dirty smoke and having to ge to bed with wet hair at 3am in the morning.

This way we all get to enjoy and you smokers still have a place to do what you have to without harming others.

[CelticGeezeer]

Going smokefree does not damage profits, global report shows
THURSDAY 2 JUNE 2005

Ending smoking in all workplaces and enclosed public places has not damaged the economy in the many countries, cities and states around the world that have adopted such legislation, according to a report presented at the Smokefree Europe conference in Luxembourg today (Thursday).

The report shows that a Europe-wide trend to drink alcohol at home rather than in bars and pubs appears to account for the apparent downturn in trade after the Irish smokefree legislation was introduced in 2004.

The news comes shortly before the Government begins its consultation on restrictions on smoking in workplaces and enclosed public places in England. At present, it proposes to end smoking in all workplaces and enclosed public places by 2008, except in pubs that do not serve ‘prepared’ food. Cancer Research UK strongly opposes this exemption, as it will leave thousands of workers unprotected.

Luk Joossens, Advocacy Officer for the Association of European Cancer Leagues, of which Cancer Research UK is a member, has compared statistics from regions that have introduced smokefree legislation, and compiled new data on drinking trends from across Europe.

He says: “Tobacco companies are at pains to show that smoking bans in bars and restaurants have a negative impact on business and lead to drops in sales and job losses. They frequently use anecdotal facts and speculative projections to make these claims.

“But rigorous analysis of studies from Ireland, New York, British Columbia and other places shows that smokefree legislation does not damage profits. In some places it could even have a positive economic effect.

Mr Joossens only analysed research that met stringent quality criteria and had been funded by a source with no links to the tobacco industry. He also examined economic trends prior to the introduction of bans.

“The main argument used by the tobacco industry is that drinking and smoking go together. If that is the case one would have expected a ban on smoking in pubs to affect Ireland, as the Irish drink more in bars than any other European nationality”, Mr Joossens adds.

“But the evidence shows that the ban did not affect Ireland’s bar economy. In fact, using objective measures such as till receipts and peer reviewed research, it is clear that going smokefree has not damaged the economy of any country examined so far.

Representatives of the Irish hospitality industry have estimated losses in the pub trade of between 15 per cent and 25 per cent since the ban was enforced 1.

However, the actual decrease in sales of alcohol was in line with declines that started in 20022.

These declines follow a Europe-wide trend towards consuming more alcohol at home. This is the case even in Ireland, where the estimated share of beer sales consumed in private homes increased from 12 per cent in 2000 to 23 per cent in 2003.

The UK has seen a similar trend. The estimated share of beer sales consumed in private homes across the UK increased from 12 per cent in 1980, to 33 per cent in 2000 to 39 per cent in 2003.

Governments will need to consider these drinking trends when they judge the success of future smokefree laws, including the comprehensive smoking ban planned for Scotland.

Mr Joossens adds: “The hospitality industry in countries that are considering smokefree legislation has a tendency to exaggerate.

“A group of representatives from the Belgian hospitality industry visited Ireland. They reported that an Irish style ban in Belgium would lead to between 20,000 and 40,000 job losses. However, even their own website shows that only 14,183 people worked in drinking places in Belgium in 2003.”

Jean King, Cancer Research UK’s Director of Tobacco Control, says: “A smokefree law that covers all workplaces and enclosed public places is Cancer Research UK’s primary policy objective.

“Going smokefree protects bar workers and customers from the serious health risks associated with secondhand smoke and can help the vast majority of smokers who want to give up.

“Because the Irish smokefree law covered all licensed premises, it created a level playing field for the pub trade. This was undoubtedly an important factor in ensuring that no elements of the hospitality trade were affected.

“This detailed analysis stresses the importance of using objective measures to evaluate the effects of smokefree legislation, rather than anecdotal evidence and statistics described out of context.”

[ifm]

Love this quote

"The report shows that a Europe-wide trend to drink alcohol at home rather than in bars and pubs appears to account for the apparent downturn in trade after the Irish smokefree legislation was introduced in 2004."

So it admits to a "downturn in trade" but blames it on folks not being arsed to go to the pub, fantastic!!!!

[raab11]

Really simple for me :

Smoking Ban = SAVING LIVES

We should ask ourselves how many people working in the Licensed Trade have died through Passive smoking?

none

passive smoking is a myth