Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[turny]

tony please dont take my question the wrong way as im just curious and you may have answered this question elsewhere and if so i apologise. but here goes.....


did you ever pay michael maccool regards the bet u had ((£100 i think) that you would personally turn luton cardroom around within a month?
or do you see yourself as succeeding and if so has he paid you?
is this still one of your personal crusades or have you given up on the place other than the occasional visit.

Marriott Hotel, Edinburgh, Sunday Morning, May 4th

I'd forgotten all about it, to be honest.

Given up? Me? Give up? I don't do give up Paul, you know that! I change my mind sometimes, but never give up.

Mick has since returned to Luton-G & played there several times, had no complaints as far as I know, but I have never thought to ask him his views on whether he thought things had impoved. Clearly, some things have, others have not, but it's a long road we travel, & Luton-G remain  a work-in-progress for a while yet.

Mick & I went through a difficult period, originally because he had some issues with blonde, & blonde Updates, about which he wrote at some length about me on his, if I may say so, rather splendidly penned-blog, & he followed that with a mocking piece about me as to that rather embarrassing, & I had assumed wholly tongue-in-cheek " tikay - UK Poker Legend" article that appeared on PokerNews without my prior knowledge. I never "bit", or threw any stones back, & have refrained from responding in kind, & shall continue so to do. We share Tables a lot at DTD these days, & we've established a rapport enabling us to share tables & have a little banter.

As such, we never mentioned the Luton thing again, we were non-speakers for a while, so it was hardly relavent in the greater scheme of things.

He can owe me the £100, I'm in no rush - it was not about money really, it was about "doing" something rather than just moaning. In the event that the bet were ever settled - either way - the money would go to Charity.

thanks for the reply tony.

hand on heart do you really think things have improved for the better at the g?
a number of regulars including tighty dont seem to be to impresses at the moment judging by there comments on the g casino thread, do u think there gripes justified?

wanted to speak to carmel tonight but she wasnt around and then i left without checking again. It's time something was done, not sure what but its definitely time. Sitting behind a computer and spouting off on here isnt getting us anywhere so really someone has to take it upon themselves to do something. Maybe get the players commitee back up and running again?

And there you have common-sense at work.

We can all moan all we like - it's not that hard to moan, actually. Being constructive takes a touch more nous though. And patience, too, as in poker, is a wonderful asset.

But the Gold Medal goes to the "I told you so" Brigade. It's hard to imagine anything more pointless than "I told you so", but I suppose it satisfies those who say it, in some teeny-weeny way. That apart, never achieved anything, though.

tony i hope your "moaning solves nothing" jibe wasn't aimed at me , i was merely asking what had come of your bet with mick. i think its common knowledge that the cardroom has not improved in the time period that you yourself spouted off that you would help achieve.  so my enquiry was whether the bet had been settled.

there is no "i told you so" brigade as far as i can see and im certainly not in that catagory. there is nothing i would like to see more than luton become the cardroom it has the potential to be. and im pretty much certain that those doing the so called "whinging" are of the same feeling and im sure the majority of them are doing as much as they can to help the cardrooms cause.

[turny]

Luton are interviewing two "high calibre" external potential card-room hires this month

the aim is to have one on board next month. Their first task according to Carmel is to get Players feedback from a new committee via elections in June.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I have no time for commitees - I am sure they must be of some use in some instances, but I've yet to come across one of these.

IMO they are frequently the tool of weak management / lack of leadership - i.e. 'we know things are going to be less than perfect, but if we get you involved it's not just our issue'.

Also, why appoint a 'high calibre' person, and then tell them how to do their job.
If they are good enough, they should be allowed to get on with it.

The players want a voice..how best to give them that voice?

as to letting someone get on with it, sure..but some corporate cultures seem to work towards the opposite..and casino managements are pretty apposite examples of that in my experience.

talking to players and obtaining feedback is necessary and should be achieved by the cardroom manager but imo a go between committe is not necessary.
its just an excuse for a few of the cardrooms larger characters to put across there views rather than the views of the majority.
a good cardroom manager should already know the basics of what a good cardroom needs to supply to its clientel for it to thrive and be successful.

again just my opinion.

[TightEnd]

its just an excuse for a few of the cardrooms larger characters to put across there views rather than the views of the majority.

well the first committee was elected (and one notable larger character didn't get elected) and I know that the members put across views that they were asked to by other players..not necessarily views they held personally

In one sense I agree with you though, with an effective card-room manager a lot of the feedback should come naturally with no need for extra committees or meetings..if the manager is on the shop floor often enough to hear it!

Also it was palpable that the culture at luton is tough to effect change in, its very bureaucratic, budgets were and are tight and there were other priorities. For this, amongst other reasons, the committee was not a success..

I gather they wish to try again though. I won't be on it, someone else can have a go.

[M3boy]

"High Calibre" Poker Room Managers?

For what the G are paying?

I seriously doubt it.

Having a manager will help yes, but that is not the main problem as we all know

[turny]

its just an excuse for a few of the cardrooms larger characters to put across there views rather than the views of the majority.

well the first committee was elected (and one notable larger character didn't get elected) and I know that the members put across views that they were asked to by other players..not necessarily views they held personally

In one sense I agree with you though, with an effective card-room manager a lot of the feedback should come naturally with no need for extra committees or meetings..if the manager is on the shop floor often enough to hear it!

Also it was palpable that the culture at luton is tough to effect change in, its very bureaucratic, budgets were and are tight and there were other priorities. For this, amongst other reasons, the committee was not a success..

I gather they wish to try again though. I won't be on it, someone else can have a go.

i meant larger personalities lol not larger bellies 

im sure whoever comes in will have a tough job on there hands and without support and investment from those above i cant see things improving very quickly.
because of the damage done over the last 9 months or so they need to throw money and bodies at the cardroom to help rebuild clientel and to prove to them that things are improving. im not sure head office will do this.

[M3boy]

i meant larger personalities lol not larger bellies 

im sure whoever comes in will have a tough job on there hands and without support and investment from those above i cant see things improving very quickly.
because of the damage done over the last 9 months or so they need to throw money and bodies at the cardroom to help rebuild clientel and to prove to them that things are improving. im 100% sure head office will not do this.

FYP

[Dingdell]

its just an excuse for a few of the cardrooms larger characters to put across there views rather than the views of the majority.

well the first committee was elected (and one notable larger character didn't get elected) and I know that the members put across views that they were asked to by other players..not necessarily views they held personally

In one sense I agree with you though, with an effective card-room manager a lot of the feedback should come naturally with no need for extra committees or meetings..if the manager is on the shop floor often enough to hear it!

Also it was palpable that the culture at luton is tough to effect change in, its very bureaucratic, budgets were and are tight and there were other priorities. For this, amongst other reasons, the committee was not a success..

I gather they wish to try again though. I won't be on it, someone else can have a go.

i meant larger personalities lol not larger bellies 

im sure whoever comes in will have a tough job on there hands and without support and investment from those above i cant see things improving very quickly.
because of the damage done over the last 9 months or so they need to throw money and bodies at the cardroom to help rebuild clientel and to prove to them that things are improving. im not sure head office will do this.

I hear and acknowledge what you're saying but rather than prejudge future events lets see what happens and offer support and encouragement to whoever the new person is. I always find a positive approach yields better results than a negative one.

Whatever has gone on in the past the new person will not have been involved in that. Lets give them the opportunity - with our input - to delight and surprise us with their managerial approach and enthusiasm. If they are faced with dour faces and a negative approach they will hardly be inspired will they?

This is a wonderful opportunity for a fresh start, lets take advantage of it.

[M3boy]

I totally agree Tracey.

Good luck to "whoever" and I hope they make a success of it, I really do.

[turny]

its just an excuse for a few of the cardrooms larger characters to put across there views rather than the views of the majority.

well the first committee was elected (and one notable larger character didn't get elected) and I know that the members put across views that they were asked to by other players..not necessarily views they held personally

In one sense I agree with you though, with an effective card-room manager a lot of the feedback should come naturally with no need for extra committees or meetings..if the manager is on the shop floor often enough to hear it!

Also it was palpable that the culture at luton is tough to effect change in, its very bureaucratic, budgets were and are tight and there were other priorities. For this, amongst other reasons, the committee was not a success..

I gather they wish to try again though. I won't be on it, someone else can have a go.

i meant larger personalities lol not larger bellies 

im sure whoever comes in will have a tough job on there hands and without support and investment from those above i cant see things improving very quickly.
because of the damage done over the last 9 months or so they need to throw money and bodies at the cardroom to help rebuild clientel and to prove to them that things are improving. im not sure head office will do this.

I hear and acknowledge what you're saying but rather than prejudge future events lets see what happens and offer support and encouragement to whoever the new person is. I always find a positive approach yields better results than a negative one.

Whatever has gone on in the past the new person will not have been involved in that. Lets give them the opportunity - with our input - to delight and surprise us with their managerial approach and enthusiasm. If they are faced with dour faces and a negative approach they will hardly be inspired will they?

This is a wonderful opportunity for a fresh start, lets take advantage of it.

are you and tikay the same person???  

where in my post was i pre judging? i was just being realistic and stating what a hard job the incming person has.

thats not having a dour face, thats not being negative!

i will support the cardroom when things improve, when i feel i will get the value for money and service i deserve as a customer.

[Dingdell]

its just an excuse for a few of the cardrooms larger characters to put across there views rather than the views of the majority.

well the first committee was elected (and one notable larger character didn't get elected) and I know that the members put across views that they were asked to by other players..not necessarily views they held personally

In one sense I agree with you though, with an effective card-room manager a lot of the feedback should come naturally with no need for extra committees or meetings..if the manager is on the shop floor often enough to hear it!

Also it was palpable that the culture at luton is tough to effect change in, its very bureaucratic, budgets were and are tight and there were other priorities. For this, amongst other reasons, the committee was not a success..

I gather they wish to try again though. I won't be on it, someone else can have a go.

i meant larger personalities lol not larger bellies 

im sure whoever comes in will have a tough job on there hands and without support and investment from those above i cant see things improving very quickly.
because of the damage done over the last 9 months or so they need to throw money and bodies at the cardroom to help rebuild clientel and to prove to them that things are improving. im not sure head office will do this.

I hear and acknowledge what you're saying but rather than prejudge future events lets see what happens and offer support and encouragement to whoever the new person is. I always find a positive approach yields better results than a negative one.

Whatever has gone on in the past the new person will not have been involved in that. Lets give them the opportunity - with our input - to delight and surprise us with their managerial approach and enthusiasm. If they are faced with dour faces and a negative approach they will hardly be inspired will they?

This is a wonderful opportunity for a fresh start, lets take advantage of it.

are you and tikay the same person???  

where in my post was i pre judging? i was just being realistic and stating what a hard job the incming person has.

thats not having a dour face, thats not being negative!

i will support the cardroom when things improve, when i feel i will get the value for money and service i deserve as a customer.

I suppose it's all in the language - I would have said "lets hope head office can do this" rather than "I'm not sure they can do this". But it doesn't need to become an issue....!

As for supporting the cardroom when things improve - I think that speaks volumes - as long as you have let them know what it is you would like (they are after all not mindreaders) and attend to see how things are going and offer suggestions appropriately I think that is a great approach - keep G casino's eye on the customer and maintain a healthy eye on operating a commercialy viable venue. I completely agree.

If your approach is 'arms crossed and I'm not coming in to play until you've got it right' then I don't think thats a great way to get what you want. I'm pretty sure that's not what you're saying at all  but that is how it came over. We always have this problem with the written word on here!

I'm not going to spend all my valuable time 'helping' the card room get it right, they have a responsibility to know what they are doing, but if they want input I'll gladly give it and continue to visit to see how it's all progressing. I'm sure you will be doing the same - especially if you know the value is there   

[turny]

quote from dingdell
I suppose it's all in the language - I would have said "lets hope head office can do this" rather than "I'm not sure they can do this". But it doesn't need to become an issue....!

no issue here!

quote from dingdell
As for supporting the cardroom when things improve - I think that speaks volumes - as long as you have let them know what it is you would like (they are after all not mindreaders) and attend to see how things are going and offer suggestions appropriately I think that is a great approach - keep G casino's eye on the customer and maintain a healthy eye on operating a commercialy viable venue. I completely agree.

im sure they dont need to be mindreaders to know what the customer wants, i think thats fairly obvious!

quote from dingdell
If your approach is 'arms crossed and I'm not coming in to play until you've got it right' then I don't think thats a great way to get what you want. I'm pretty sure that's not what you're saying at all   but that is how it came over. We always have this problem with the written word on here!


you right its not what im saying, its just i choose to take my business elsewhere at present just like i would if it was a supermarket or any other type of shop.
if i see the owner of the shop making an effort then i will help them with my trade. if i see that they dont care whether i visit there shop or not then im afraid il visit somewhere that wants my trade.
its not an "arms crossed" mentality and im sure il visit again long before they've got it right and im sure il write my views here whether good or bad because believe it or not i do write good things as well as bad things on here though it seems only the negative comments are picked up on.
quote from dingdell
I'm not going to spend all my valuable time 'helping' the card room get it right, they have a responsibility to know what they are doing, but if they want input I'll gladly give it and continue to visit to see how it's all progressing. I'm sure you will be doing the same - especially if you know the value is there


im sure the value will be there as long as you are 

[Dingdell]

im sure they dont need to be mindreaders to know what the customer wants, i think thats fairly obvious!

I disagree - people want different experiences from all sorts of services - casinos included.
The first thing I ask all my clients when I see them for the first time is what they are trying to achieve, and what they want me to help them with. Some want help because they are not pooing well, some because they feel bloated or tired all the time, some just want a detox. It's not obvious to me what they want until I ask them. We all have differing expectations and wants.

Sainburys - some people want discounted goods, some want more organic, some want easy to reach shelves.

Casinos - some want music, some dont. Some want more cash tables, some want cheaper buy ins, later starts etc etc. How can any of this be obvious?

Unless you let them know what you want they will only be guessing what to do to woo you back. Hopefully they will ask, as I do and Sainburys do to ensure we give a good service to our customers.

I for one hope that you will contribute when asked for feedback from the G, I think you have a lot to contribute.


quote from dingdell
I'm not going to spend all my valuable time 'helping' the card room get it right, they have a responsibility to know what they are doing, but if they want input I'll gladly give it and continue to visit to see how it's all progressing. I'm sure you will be doing the same - especially if you know the value is there


im sure the value will be there as long as you are 
[/quote]

I must have whooshed you there - first time for everything! I meant myself.....

[turny]

i know you did tracey i was joking with you lol

[Nursey]

I did the Show in the Evening, with Michelle Orpe, & she became slightly unwell midway through, & needed to leave the studio for a while during a break, & never returned in time for the re-start, ooh-er. So I moved across to the Presenters position & Camera, & did my first ever Live Presenting session. Thoroughly enjoyed it, though it was a bit "on-the-hoof", as I had nobody to "throw to", but Orpe soon returned. I can now put that on my TV CV - "experienced TV Presenter". Not to boast, either, but I was faultless, for nearly half of the entire 90 seconds.

He He, you can pay me the $10 you said you'd give me for pretending to be ill so you could get 'Live TV Presenting' on your CV. You did brilliantly bearing in mind you were so tired Mr Tikay. You can't be having the Grandad Snoozes all the time when we're married you know, I need a lot of attention.....Shock Horror haha

xx

[tikay]

tony please dont take my question the wrong way as im just curious and you may have answered this question elsewhere and if so i apologise. but here goes.....


did you ever pay michael maccool regards the bet u had ((£100 i think) that you would personally turn luton cardroom around within a month?
or do you see yourself as succeeding and if so has he paid you?
is this still one of your personal crusades or have you given up on the place other than the occasional visit.

Marriott Hotel, Edinburgh, Sunday Morning, May 4th

I'd forgotten all about it, to be honest.

Given up? Me? Give up? I don't do give up Paul, you know that! I change my mind sometimes, but never give up.

Mick has since returned to Luton-G & played there several times, had no complaints as far as I know, but I have never thought to ask him his views on whether he thought things had impoved. Clearly, some things have, others have not, but it's a long road we travel, & Luton-G remain  a work-in-progress for a while yet.

Mick & I went through a difficult period, originally because he had some issues with blonde, & blonde Updates, about which he wrote at some length about me on his, if I may say so, rather splendidly penned-blog, & he followed that with a mocking piece about me as to that rather embarrassing, & I had assumed wholly tongue-in-cheek " tikay - UK Poker Legend" article that appeared on PokerNews without my prior knowledge. I never "bit", or threw any stones back, & have refrained from responding in kind, & shall continue so to do. We share Tables a lot at DTD these days, & we've established a rapport enabling us to share tables & have a little banter.

As such, we never mentioned the Luton thing again, we were non-speakers for a while, so it was hardly relavent in the greater scheme of things.

He can owe me the £100, I'm in no rush - it was not about money really, it was about "doing" something rather than just moaning. In the event that the bet were ever settled - either way - the money would go to Charity.

thanks for the reply tony.

hand on heart do you really think things have improved for the better at the g?
a number of regulars including tighty dont seem to be to impresses at the moment judging by there comments on the g casino thread, do u think there gripes justified?

wanted to speak to carmel tonight but she wasnt around and then i left without checking again. It's time something was done, not sure what but its definitely time. Sitting behind a computer and spouting off on here isnt getting us anywhere so really someone has to take it upon themselves to do something. Maybe get the players commitee back up and running again?

And there you have common-sense at work.

We can all moan all we like - it's not that hard to moan, actually. Being constructive takes a touch more nous though. And patience, too, as in poker, is a wonderful asset.

But the Gold Medal goes to the "I told you so" Brigade. It's hard to imagine anything more pointless than "I told you so", but I suppose it satisfies those who say it, in some teeny-weeny way. That apart, never achieved anything, though.

tony i hope your "moaning solves nothing" jibe wasn't aimed at me , i was merely asking what had come of your bet with mick. i think its common knowledge that the cardroom has not improved in the time period that you yourself spouted off that you would help achieve.  so my enquiry was whether the bet had been settled.

there is no "i told you so" brigade as far as i can see and im certainly not in that catagory. there is nothing i would like to see more than luton become the cardroom it has the potential to be. and im pretty much certain that those doing the so called "whinging" are of the same feeling and im sure the majority of them are doing as much as they can to help the cardrooms cause.

No, the "moaning" jibe was not aimed at you.

"Common knowledge it has not improved". Well, we are debating that, here & now. I've set out my views on that here & elsewhere at some length. Just my opinions.

There most certainly was "I told you so" on the Luton thread. It was not, repeat not, by you.

(tikay) "spouted off". Do we really have to describe a good, civil, polite & constructive debate as "spouting off"? I'm very sad you see it that way. If you wish to have a debate with me, that's terrific, but I won't accuse you of "spouting off", because that's derogatory in the extreme.

Youi asked the question about the bet, I went to some lengths to explain the position very clearly, & fully, as I saw it.