APAT Season Two Sponsorship

[tikay]

I am an online member - as far as i was aware reading the rules of the APA this did not entitle me to buy in direct for Live APAT events. Whether that changes for season two i'm not sure but seeing as how the online tournaments have switched away from Pokerstars then chances are it doesnt matter as i probably wont play any of the online events unless the blind structure on blue square changes.

If in the future i can see that the APA is benefitting the amateur player in the UK outside of the APAT tournaments then i will consider paying an annual membership - this isnt me knocking what the APAT is doing, this is me wanting to see that i'm getting my money's worth.

And for the record Des i'm with IFM as i couldnt really make sense of your reply - ever thought of a career in politics?

Hi Matt,

Of course I'm biased, so I would say this I suppose. But it already IS benefitting Amateur players outside of APAT Tourneys.

We added money - serious money -  we said "no reg fees", we looked after the players well, & we put on deep-stack decent structured tourneys at a low cost, these four things in combination were not previously available to those who cannot afford the big buy-in comps. You'd probably say, "well, that's just APAT", but it's not. Others are now copying the idea, & you will see many similar type events - low buy-in, added money, deep-stack, customer-care, decent structure, no reg fee, very soon. I know of at least one already announced, it will take place in November, (it will be a 250 runner affair) & I know for a fact of two more that are in planning. That's how it works - the "new concept" of looking after the amateur players properly wll spread, because they (other Organisers) have seen that the demand is there for these Events, especially if they are run well, & focus is given to customer care, not something poker players are used to. In 2008, expect a whole bunch of such Tourneys. It's the "ripple effect".

[ifm]

It is almost impossible to comment on this thread without "knocking" but i have to say your last post TK is basically saying that you have done nothing but are hoping others are going to copy us in the comps.
The question has been asked so many times now it's getting silly, the tour aside what is the association doing?

[tikay]

It is almost impossible to comment on this thread without "knocking" but i have to say your last post TK is basically saying that you have done nothing but are hoping others are going to copy us in the comps.
The question has been asked so many times now it's getting silly, the tour aside what is the association doing?

It is saying nothing of the sort Ian.

"you have done nothing"?.........I won't respond to that.

"hoping others copy us"?  I am working with "the others" to encourage the spread of the APAT-style, & they'll have the same "basics", including, added money, good structure & clock, & APAT rules. Copy, encourage, call it what you will. I'm very proud to be part of a Team helping to promote a better deal for Amateur Players, & it has all begun, or at least my involvement in this has, from APAT. We lead, others will & are following & the end result will be a better deal for Amateur poker players. That's how it works, we don't storm into the Casino's offices & demand this that & the other, we are forging a new path, leading by example, & it's working, & players all over Britain will soon be getting a better Tournament experience because of APAT.

Amateur poker players now have a body, & a say in things, & can vote for change in APAT Elections & APAT Committees, which have been announced elsewhere.

[tikay]

It is almost impossible to comment on this thread without "knocking" but i have to say your last post TK is basically saying that you have done nothing but are hoping others are going to copy us in the comps.
The question has been asked so many times now it's getting silly, the tour aside what is the association doing?

And it's been answered as many times. Yes, it's getting silly, keep repeating the same thing.

Amateur Poker players are better off now than they were a year ago, thanks to APAT. Even you would struggle to deny that.

It's a long road we travel, but we've made a great start. IMO, anyway.

[DesD]

And for the record Des i'm with IFM as i couldnt really make sense of your reply - ever thought of a career in politics?

Matt, in addition to influencing others to follow in our footsteps in terms of events with added value for recreational players, we are also seeking to influence the largest gaming companies in the UK and Europe to be much more player focussed.  That is incredibly political and takes lots and lots of lobbying.  These companies will not be told what to do.  They need to see APAT ideas in operation and being successful.  Joking aside, of course this is an incredibly political task.

IFM, I'm blue in the face explaining it.  Read the post on what we are attempting to do again and again, and if you still cannot see what we are trying to achieve in creating relationships with the casino groups, then you will either a) have to trust us or b) ...well that is up to you.  Our intentions could not be more player focussed.  For what its worth, you are also very welcome to call me and I will talk you through our strategy.  If you are interested, drop me a pm and I will swap numbers with you.

[ifm]

"you have done nothing" is out of context as you well know.
You seem to bring the tour comps into everything, yes we all know about added value, no rake, deep stacks, good environment etc. etc. but that is not what is (and has been) asked, i along with a couple of others (and many more have mentioned it via PM) are asking about the association alone!
Not the tour, forget the tour, that was a side issue to many it's the communications with casino chains i am asking about.

[ifm]

I'll give up again till the next APAT thread i think

[RioRodent]

The reason i didnt join the APAT last year is ........

That's odd, I could have sworn I saw you playing the APAT event in Dublin???   

Matt is an online member of APAT and qualified to play in Dublin via an online satellite.  Despite joning to play online, Matt is of course a member.

So, for Season 2, does this mean that any new  'Association Member' (ie. Free - so presumably just register on Blue Square and play), that plays in an online satellite to a live event and wins a seat will not have to pay the £10 Tour membership fee?

[tikay]

"you have done nothing" is out of context as you well know.
You seem to bring the tour comps into everything, yes we all know about added value, no rake, deep stacks, good environment etc. etc. but that is not what is (and has been) asked, i along with a couple of others (and many more have mentioned it via PM) are asking about the association alone!
Not the tour, forget the tour, that was a side issue to many it's the communications with casino chains i am asking about.

it's the communications with casino chains I am asking about.

OK, we have been & are in discussuon with every Major UK Casino Group, including Grosvenor, Gala &  Stanley. And DTD, too.

We have held Events in Grosvenor's, Gala's, & would have done one in Stanleys but for the Disabled Access problem. But we still hope to work with Stanleys. We intend to hold Events in DTD subject to them resolving their Licensing problems. And we've worked with, & continue to have dialogue with, Aspers, The Broadway, & The Fitzwilliam. Oh, & we always get agreement that APAT Rules will be used in our Events, & soon they'll be used in non-APAT Events in some Venues. Every Venue that works with APAT has to accept our Terms & Rules, & they all have. And they've all been delighted at how well the Events gave been run, & this has in turn bought more players into the market. Win win.

[matt674]

Matt, in addition to influencing others to follow in our footsteps in terms of events with added value for recreational players, we are also seeking to influence the largest gaming companies in the UK and Europe to be much more player focussed.  That is incredibly political and takes lots and lots of lobbying.  These companies will not be told what to do.  They need to see APAT ideas in operation and being successful.  Joking aside, of course this is an incredibly political task.

I'm not a recreational player, i'm an amateur player - this is one of the reasons that i'm not particularly interested in the tour as with the payout structure they do not represent good value from a profitability point of view. after taking travelling expenses, accomodation and spending money into account for tournaments on south coast, scotland or ireland i have to finish in top 3 to show a profit.

this is why i am asking more about the association rather than the live events - i want to know what the association are doing rather than what other organizations are doing trying to copy the APAT. At least in this post you are being more honest by saying that so far you are still trying to make the gaming companies look at things from your point of view but they will take time to maybe look at it from a poker players point of view rather than from a casino's point of view.

[DesD]

Matt, in addition to influencing others to follow in our footsteps in terms of events with added value for recreational players, we are also seeking to influence the largest gaming companies in the UK and Europe to be much more player focussed.  That is incredibly political and takes lots and lots of lobbying.  These companies will not be told what to do.  They need to see APAT ideas in operation and being successful.  Joking aside, of course this is an incredibly political task.

At least in this post you are being more honest by saying that so far you are still trying to make the gaming companies look at things from your point of view but they will take time to maybe look at it from a poker players point of view rather than from a casino's point of view.

Matt, I haven't said anything in this post that I haven't said numerous times previously.  What is important to note is that APAT has a year of history under our belt with the casino chains and are on a first name basis with the key individuals within those groups. 

[dik9]

But you have in effect been sponsored by Grosvenor/blue sq. So how are the other chains reacting to this? Will Gala/stanleys get involved in an association (when it comes around to it) that is sponsored by Blue Sq? Will Gala or Stanleys hold events and give GUKPT seats out etc with flyers for Blue Sq all over their cardrooms??

[tikay]

But you have in effect been sponsored by Grosvenor/blue sq. So how are the other chains reacting to this? Will Gala/stanleys get involved in an association (when it comes around to it) that is sponsored by Blue Sq? Will Gala or Stanleys hold events and give GUKPT seats out etc with flyers for Blue Sq all over their cardrooms??

Yes, Des is some tough nut to negotiate with, & he's secured agreement from our Season Two Sponsors to go to non-Grosvenor Venues in certain cases, as I've already indicated this afternoon. Clearly, we'll need to use some diplomacy & tact in non-Grosvenor venues, but we'll be there, & we'll do it. Every Major Group discussed Season Two with us, & we remain on excellent terms with them all.

[dik9]

Does Non Grosvenor= Independants like Aspers and Broadway

Does that include Stanleys and Galas? Are they featured on your tour now you are sponsored by Blue Sq?

[DesD]

But you have in effect been sponsored by Grosvenor/blue sq. So how are the other chains reacting to this? Will Gala/stanleys get involved in an association (when it comes around to it) that is sponsored by Blue Sq? Will Gala or Stanleys hold events and give GUKPT seats out etc with flyers for Blue Sq all over their cardrooms??

Rich.  

The Association is not sponsored by Blue Square, APAT's own tour is.  Gala have been positive about continuing to hold APAT events and wide ranging discussions are taking place with the board of directors at Gala Casinos. You will understand that I cannot go into the specifics here, but there is a vision that APAT are working to deliver and I do not believe that any organisation has been as close to jointly engaging Grosvenor and Gala, as APAT currently is.  As mentioned above, it is very sensitive, so progress is slow and deliberate.  In the interim, where we have time, we will continue to field the odd brick from the crowd.

Regards,

Des.