Methods of Rake

[snoopy1239]

At the Broadway the other week, I was shocked to learn that sessions at the cash table were £8 per person. £80 an hour sounded a little steep for a dealer and table for my liking, but I was subsequently told that the future may see a percentage taken from the pot instead, which would work out more expensive.

From what I understand, taking percentages on average normally works out to be more costly, but there is something more soothing about this method for some reason. I'm not sure why it is, perhaps it's because you can fold and not pay.

What are the pros and cons of this method and is it as simple as working out which system provides the casino with more money per hour to calculate which works out best for you as an individual?

[bone1986]

I much prefer to pay rake as long as its capped at a reasonable level, most of the games that I played in while in Vegas capped their rake at 10% up to a max of $4. On top of this there was the obligatory tip to the dealer, but again I don't find this a problem.

 This suited me as I felt that I was paying for a service when I entered pots rather than just renting a chair. As I was playing fairly long sessions, 10 hours plus, and having long card dead periods these cost me nothing but then I don't play as many pots as some people.

[fearisthekey]

Mostly psychological, I suppose. Fixed hourly rate encourages action, people want to cover their fixed cost. Percentage rake easier to swallow: "Hey I just won a thousand bux, who cares that I lose 150 of it to the house".
Rakes on split pots however  Sit and wait for a hand, flop the nut straight, end up putting in £300, and lose money because some monkey catches up to split it with you.............

[bone1986]

Spot on that is why the rake needs to be capped at a reasonable level, if it isn't then it becomes very difficult to beat the rake over a long period.

 Who knows if this would happen in this country as the casinos are currently more interested in profits, quite rightly they are a business, than looking after the long term player pool which attends their establishment.

The max rake in the US seems to have been set at about the correct amount, at least in the rooms that I have played in. This may be down to more competition or a tradition of raking at a certain level, but I just prefer to pay a reasonable rake than an hourly charge.

[AlexMartin]

Unless cardrooms are sensible when they bring in rake in September, we could see the death of live cash. I know the grosvenor chain has left it to individual cardroom managers to sort it out and lets hope they are sensible. Low internet rake is one of the reasons its so popular.

[Karabiner]

Unless cardrooms are sensible when they bring in rake in September, we could see the death of live cash. I know the grosvenor chain has left it to individual cardroom managers to sort it out and lets hope they are sensible. Low internet rake is one of the reasons its so popular.

 

Some casinos will no doubt kill the golden goose by greedy irresponsible raking.

[AndrewT]

Unless cardrooms are sensible when they bring in rake in September, we could see the death of live cash. I know the grosvenor chain has left it to individual cardroom managers to sort it out and lets hope they are sensible. Low internet rake is one of the reasons its so popular.

Indeed. Not only is it low compared to live cash, but many players don't even notice it leaving the pot. They do notice it when they see a live dealer push a chip through a slot in the table.

[vegaslover]

Unless cardrooms are sensible when they bring in rake in September, we could see the death of live cash. I know the grosvenor chain has left it to individual cardroom managers to sort it out and lets hope they are sensible. Low internet rake is one of the reasons its so popular.

And then there's the rakeback, not going to be seeing any of that at the casinos.

[dik9]

I was subsequently told that the future may see a percentage taken from the pot instead

Are you sure they mentioned the word instead?

[Jinky04]

I think fixed hourly rake is less distortionary and thus better.
 Think about it, a hypothetical hand where on the river you believe believe you are somewhere between 0-20% ahead of your single opponent. That implies, in the long run (max n/~ scenarios), you win 50-60% of the pot. 10% uncapped rake (or capped rake where the pot is small) surely turns what should be a solid call into a fold as your probable equity is eaten up?

Or am I talking absolute pish?

[The Nomad]

Poker players in the UK are in for a shock on this .Since when have casinos not been in the business of not making the maximum per sq ft.The rake will be far higher than the US capped at around4 dollars .Paris it can go over 10euros,we are playing 1/2 nl here.....The real screwing happens when the pot hits 31 deduction 3 jackpot 1 tip 1 now thats well over 10%.  On some small buy in tight games you can actually see the money dissapearing before your eyes.   As usual it will be the smaller games that get raked the most. Now heres the Joke so it will be left to the card room managers now they have to gets results overheads to cover etc they will take as much as the are legally allowed, the player doesnt even come into this scenario.well he does but you have to think   Victim....same as the Roulette and BJ....   The only way the rake will be kept under control is if there are market forces at work but before any of this goes down they will all get together and and come to some chummy agreement.I shall watch this with interest content in the knowledge that it cannot be more savagly raked than a joint I played in last summer game 2/4 limit holdem flop 2 turn 2 river2 jackpot 2 tip min 2 oh and they were scalping the pot as well  and you guys think they over do it in Amsterdam....Poker tables can make a lot of money for their operators with no financial risk they are not run for the players benefit that is something you may have to get used to in the UK. If you happen to play the game for enjoyment you can look on it as a price increase.If you play to win your game will have to improve to cover the Larger Nut...If you play for a living well we are back to game selection, nothing changes.  Ps that 2/4 game makes over 2k a night and its still running.

[kinboshi]

Will be interesting to see how DTD approaches this when/if they get the all clear.

[londonpokergirl]

personally i prefer 5% rake taken out of the pot, but with a maximum cap in force

Hourly charges are a pain in the bum, and come collection time, do you want to stay 1 more hour??  1 person who drops out could effectively ditch the game

Rake and everybody seems to want to play longer and leave whenever

[The Rivercard]

I think you all may be surprised. Casinos want attendance levels and if poker brings players in and takings go up in the bar and at the tables then I believe the rake will come down. They want you in the casino so if the main groups start fighting over your business then the rake is the best place to start.

[matt674]

big items first, then leaves and finish with grass