Doing deals

[jjandellis]

I got HU at my local casino last night. I was marginally up and offered a 50-50 split of the top 2 (£375 & 190).

I rejected and got up to 60k to 30k in chips, when again the deal was offered. Again, naturally I declined. Later on I was 30-60 in chips - and again the same deal was offered!!!

Very tempting, but I decided to turn it down as:

a. I still felt I could win.
b. I was really enjoying the game, which was being played out in a really good spirit (the final 4 players sat together for 2 hours).

I ended up blowing it and coming away with second place and £190. As I said I was really enjoying the game AND, more importantly, I think I have had another slant on playing heads up from my opponent.

I'm usually pretty good HU (Claw will probably be laughing after taking e apart the other night), but I felt I learnt a thing or 2 from this chap.

4 questions:

1. What situations do you accept deals in? (I currently have NO, NEVER EVER deal policy)
2. Do you think that losing can sometimes provide a valuable lesson that outweighs the financial rewards of winning?
3. Is deal making a vital skill to be incorporated into bankroll management (something I religiously follow)?
4. Am I being naieve by never EVER accepting deals?

As always, many varied thoughts and opinions appreciated and greatly looked forward to!!!!

[tikay]

I got HU at my local casino last night. I was marginally up and offered a 50-50 split of the top 2 (£375 & 190).

I rejected and got up to 60k to 30k in chips, when again the deal was offered. Again, naturally I declined. Later on I was 30-60 in chips - and again the same deal was offered!!!

Very tempting, but I decided to turn it down as:

a. I still felt I could win.
b. I was really enjoying the game, which was being played out in a really good spirit (the final 4 players sat together for 2 hours).

I ended up blowing it and coming away with second place and £190. As I said I was really enjoying the game AND, more importantly, I think I have had another slant on playing heads up from my opponent.

I'm usually pretty good HU (Claw will probably be laughing after taking e apart the other night), but I felt I learnt a thing or 2 from this chap.

4 questions:

1. What situations do you accept deals in? (I currently have NO, NEVER EVER deal policy)
2. Do you think that losing can sometimes provide a valuable lesson that outweighs the financial rewards of winning?
3. Is deal making a vital skill to be incorporated into bankroll management (something I religiously follow)?
4. Am I being naieve by never EVER accepting deals?

As always, many varied thoughts and opinions appreciated and greatly looked forward to!!!!

In my opinion, YES, that's an error. Bankroll Management comes above every single other factor. By miles. Unless of course, you are sponsored, or a nipper. The nippers never deal, either, why should they, they are freerolling!

Chili did a deal at Notts on Tuesday, & netted £575. You cannot begin to imagine how important that £575 is to her. You need to cover costs first, the rest is bonus. Not a popular view, but it's my view, & you did ask. And, with only a half-decent game, I've survived on the Circuit for a few years now, & never borrowed a penny.

[dealerFROMhell]

Sod that.

As Tony G says...

"I've got the big heart!"

[The_duke]

Would I deal --

Sometimes it depends on the number of people in the chop and the relevent percentages in chip stacks. However I am with Tikay on this one, if you deal you will take away more than if you were next out (otherwise why deal ), and fiscal prudence is paramount (to me anyway).

More often than not I will accept a deal......

[M3boy]

I used to be anti deal in a big way.

But as soon as I won my first live MTT outright, I have been incllined to do deals when there is no play left in the tournament - Usually taking almost 2nd place money anyway.

At the end of the day, winning is great, BUT money is more important - for those that need it!

Each to their own I say.

[tikay]

Sod that.

As Tony G says...

"I've got the big heart!"

It has nothing to do with "heart", as well you know Sir! Lack of ability maybe, yes, but I just wanna play poker, & to live that life, first I have to survive. Many a far better player than me has gone skint because of this "I'm Billy Big Dick & I don't do Deals" mindset.

[MANTIS01]

2. Do you think that losing can sometimes provide a valuable lesson that outweighs the financial rewards of winning?

In a word...No!

The whole purpose of this game is money. So missing out on money here and now because it MAY provide you with an opportunity to get money at some point in the future is a wafer thin philosophy in my book. I am with Tikay and the voice of experience on this one.

I have never offered a deal playing poker...maybe because it may give you a slight psycological disadvantage if the deal is refused...or probably because I'm not fussed either way. But if a fair deal is offered I will always agree because of one undeniable factor....LUCK! You have gambled to get into a position to take home some good money. So why gamble with that money and confront lady luck head-on just because your ego thinks..."I can clean these loosers clocks..yeah baby"

I have contacted The royal Bank of Scotland and they confirm that me thinking I'm the best wont pay my mortgage.

[dan]

I had a simalar thing happen to me a few weeks ago at Walsall. I hardly ever play live, on average maybe only once every 6-8 weeks or so.

 It was a £50 one rebuy or add on. There were only 34 runners so a nice little field. Prizes were £940 for 1st, £510 for 2nd and £280 for 3rd.

 In Walsall, as I am sure is probably the same with most card rooms, everybody else knew each other but as I dont play that often I was the "outsider". Anyway we got 3 handed I had 75,000 of the 135,000 in play when the one guy turned around and asked for an equal 3 way chop. This meant I would take just over 2nd place money, about £575.

I rejected the deal without thinking about it. Within a few hands we are HU. Again the same guy offered a deal. I still had 75,000 he had 60,000. I wouldve collected £725. Now this was more tempting but I had already played this guy off a few pots on the final table and managed to get him all in, 4 handed, when I had A7 v his 57 and he got lucky, he then said I played it badly I was in the SB him BB I limped he raised and I set him in and he called.(Thought I played it OK but never mind, I limped from the SB because everytime someone limped on his BB he raised.)

As I said £725 each, so I thought for a sec and said I will take £725 you take £700 and we leave £25 for the valets, at this he got quite funny with me and started going on about Im not arguing over £12.50 each lets just play.

I thought fine, dont mind that. 1st hand he pushed all in I had 88 and called he had J9 and hit a 9 on the turn. next hand it was all over and I came 2nd. I dont regret for one minute not doing the deal as I felt I was possibly better than him, maybe I shouldnt of called with 88 but I did not think I was being unreasonable, maybe he got funny because I was not a regular, I dont know.

[tikay]

2. Do you think that losing can sometimes provide a valuable lesson that outweighs the financial rewards of winning?

In a word...No!

The whole purpose of this game is money. So missing out on money here and now because it MAY provide you with an opportunity to get money at some point in the future is a wafer thin philosophy in my book. I am with Tikay and the voice of experience on this one.

I have never offered a deal playing poker...maybe because it may give you a slight psycological disadvantage if the deal is refused...or probably because I'm not fussed either way. But if a fair deal is offered I will always agree because of one undeniable factor....LUCK! You have gambled to get into a position to take home some good money. So why gamble with that money and confront lady luck head-on just because your ego thinks..."I can clean these loosers clocks..yeah baby"

I have contacted The royal Bank of Scotland and they confirm that me thinking I'm the best wont pay my mortgage.

This may be a bit odd, but I may hold the record for doing the most Deals in Circuit Tournament Poker, I've done scores of them in festivals, literally, & hiundreds in non-Fessie Events. Even Online, I used to "deal" regularly in $500 & $1,000 SNG's on 'Stars.  But I have never once asked for a deal. If offered, & it's half-sensible, I rarely refuse. Money in the bank.

When I was working, I had a big sign on my wall.

Turnover is Vanity, Profit is Sanity, Cash is King

[dealerFROMhell]

Turnover is Vanity, Profit is Sanity, Cash is King

Mine said

"Never trust a man whose trousers are more expensive than his shoes"

[DaveShoelace]

Turnover is Vanity, Profit is Sanity, Cash is King

I like it because it rhymes

[Longy]

I quite happy to deal but only on my terms and when i think a deal is +ev for me, I recently chopped a tournament with £2000 left in play i was the shortie and was offered an even chop, anybody who doesn't want to deal here doesn't like money IMO.

Dan the guy you were heads up with, sounds like an idiot and the call with 88 must be a good one surely.

Tikay you really are the deal king, chopping up sng's online takes it to a new level. Did stars assist the deal process, I have heard they will if requested even in sng's.

On that subject i really like the system party have for final table deals where basically the players can barter and all be involved in the process, wow i just said something good about party which didn't involve mentioning how soft the games were.

[UpTheMariners]

I got HU at my local casino last night. I was marginally up and offered a 50-50 split of the top 2 (£375 & 190).

I rejected and got up to 60k to 30k in chips, when again the deal was offered. Again, naturally I declined. Later on I was 30-60 in chips - and again the same deal was offered!!!

Very tempting, but I decided to turn it down as:

a. I still felt I could win.
b. I was really enjoying the game, which was being played out in a really good spirit (the final 4 players sat together for 2 hours).

I ended up blowing it and coming away with second place and £190. As I said I was really enjoying the game AND, more importantly, I think I have had another slant on playing heads up from my opponent.

I'm usually pretty good HU (Claw will probably be laughing after taking e apart the other night), but I felt I learnt a thing or 2 from this chap.

4 questions:

1. What situations do you accept deals in? (I currently have NO, NEVER EVER deal policy)
2. Do you think that losing can sometimes provide a valuable lesson that outweighs the financial rewards of winning?
3. Is deal making a vital skill to be incorporated into bankroll management (something I religiously follow)?
4. Am I being naieve by never EVER accepting deals?

As always, many varied thoughts and opinions appreciated and greatly looked forward to!!!!

In my opinion, YES, that's an error. Bankroll Management comes above every single other factor. By miles. Unless of course, you are sponsored, or a nipper. The nippers never deal, either, why should they, they are freerolling!

Chili did a deal at Notts on Tuesday, & netted £575. You cannot begin to imagine how important that £575 is to her. You need to cover costs first, the rest is bonus. Not a popular view, but it's my view, & you did ask. And, with only a half-decent game, I've survived on the Circuit for a few years now, & never borrowed a penny.

probably a daft question but whats a nipper?

[tikay]

I quite happy to deal but only on my terms and when i think a deal is +ev for me, I recently chopped a tournament with £2000 left in play i was the shortie and was offered an even chop, anybody who doesn't want to deal here doesn't like money IMO.

Dan the guy you were heads up with, sounds like an idiot and the call with 88 must be a good one surely.

Tikay you really are the deal king, chopping up sng's online takes it to a new level. Did stars assist the deal process, I have heard they will if requested even in sng's.

On that subject i really like the system party have for final table deals where basically the players can barter and all be involved in the process, wow i just said something good about party which didn't involve mentioning how soft the games were.

Stars would help the Deal process, but in fact we did it amongst ourselves.

There was only a limited number of players regularly playing the $500 & $1,000 SNG's, & many of us knew each other, via these SNG's really, & some I knew personally. Johan Storakers, Bo Scheisdt (sp?). Mark Bartlog, etc, & we had pretty much reached a point where we pre-agreed that if any of that "set" ended up Heads-Up, we'd do an even chop, irrespective of chip stacks, as the Blinds by that stage were unplayable. Previously, I'd have a standard $100 or $200 Last Longer with Mark & Johan, but the Heads-Up Chop worked better. If you played a lot of these, as I used to, at $500 & $1,000 a pop, it was just common sense.

The 'Stars "Transfer Funds" facility is superb, & we just used that, & obviously, we trusted each other, & I never once got shafted.

I actually got an e-mal from 'Stars one day, telling me they'd discovered collusion on these SNG's, & they sent me $900! It goes without saying that none of our "group" of regulars ever undulged in soft-play.

A bizarre coincidence arose in 2005. I was playing the WSOP $1,500, & 10 tables out, I found myself on a table with no less than four of my regular "online" mates from these SNG's. Me, a Dutchman, a Swede, and an Aussie. Small world, eh? I think John Gale cashed as well, & Marcel Luske was 10th, (I only went so deep because he kept doubling me up!) & Erik Seidel was 5th or 6th. I shared a table with John Juanda, & I thought he was quite exceptional, perhaps the best I've ever seen. My only WSOP Event, ever, & I loved every moment of it.

Sorry, I'm rambling here.

[tikay]

probably a daft question but whats a nipper?

In poker, one who "nips" you, or borrows money from you to play an Event, without, usually, much intention of repaying it promptly, if at all. There are way too many of them right now, & they play all the big Events, & quite shamelessly go round all the players before asking for a "loan". When they make a Major Final, it's comical to watch the "Rail" cheering them on - thus hoping they might get back some of the money they have loaned! A Big-Name player won a huge amount recently, but only paid out 50p in the £.....!