Playing for the win,,, could anyone fold this?

[M3boy]

Ok, so the situation is : (from the £500 Golden Sands Fessie)

There are 21 players left and you have suffered a few accidents/mis timed steal attempts and are down to 36k, blinds are now 1500 3000 with a 300 running ante.

You are the BB (with junk) and there is a raise and re raise so you pass
Same when the SB

So thats 5100 in blinds and ante's

STOP! Table break, so down to 20 - money starts at 18.

You are moved straight into the BB !
You are dealt 9 4 and there is a huge raise from the big stack to your left - big enough so he cannot pass to a shove from you - you pass
So now you are the small blind and it is folded round to you and you have A8
You could shove here, but the BB has circa 80k and you believe he will call your shove with a wide range of hands so you decide to show strength and raise 10k on top, leaving 14k back

He announces all in.

Playing for the win, can you fold here?

[portfolio]

never ever  ever.





























ever !!

[thetank]

Annoying call to make, but it has to be done.

Times like these, I'm glad I'm a senseless pushbot who would have shoved pre-flop after looking at one card.

[MANTIS01]

 Posted on: Today at 02:35:04 amPosted by: M3boy 

You could shove here, but the BB has circa 80k and you believe he will call your shove with a wide range of hands

So why not shove?

You need to gamble to improve your position and you are playing to win. Getting the bb to call with a range you beat right now is a good thing no? At the very least you wont be facing this decision.

If you fold now you will be pushing shortly with any A, still could run into a better hand, and there wont be the extra 25k in the pot there is now. Call and take on his pair of 5's...hopefully.

[TheChipPrince]

I think youve caused this tricky situation yourself, yes the 10K raise makes your hand look stronger than all-in, but if you made it 16K with 8K left then its an easy call if he moves all-in, but your still showing great strength, I think youve put yourself under pressure here without needing too, make a smaller raise so you can fold if you wish, or the bigger raise like explained...


If i'd made it 10K and he shoves I think you have to call...

[M3boy]

I think the shove preflop is not a good idea - by this I mean getting him to call an all in shove with a wide range of hands. A8 is not a hand I want to gamble 8xBB on. Also, you say I need to gamble, but if he folds to my 10k raise, I have picked up 6k in chips and I would then have enoough F/E to shove to an opening raise.

My personal thoughts (and indeed what I did) was to call, I cannot pass up this oppotunity to get 70k in chips.

Details of the outcome are on my blog (www.m3boy.blogspot.com) , no bad beat stories here! lol

[TheChipPrince]

Nice 'trip report' M3, case 8 is harsh...

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: M3boy

I think the shove preflop is not a good idea - by this I mean getting him to call an all in shove with a wide range of hands. A8 is not a hand I want to gamble 8xBB on. Also, you say I need to gamble, but if he folds to my 10k raise, I have picked up 6k in chips and I would then have enoough F/E to shove to an opening raise

Yep, I know what you're saying but...the fewer chips you have and the more desperate your situation, the thinner your choices become. To play this hand at all is to commit. If your opponent simply calls pre-flop you are never going to check-fold on the flop. A-8 is streets ahead of a random hand and if you feel he will call with an inferior holding then why avoid the gamble your situation dictates you must take on? Any hand he folds for 10k he also folds for the shove. Raising half your stack and then calling the rest is pretty much the same play no?

[M3boy]

I dont think it is.

I have seen many players call the 10k - as they have so many chips with hands like 67 suited etc...

You are right, I am pushing on ANY flop if he calls.

The point is, if he calls with 67 say. And the flop comes A K 9, he WILL not call the remianing 14k.

You are right though, once I raise here I am committed to the hand

It was an interesting situation indeed.

[tikay]

I hear your logic Paul, but I cannot play the hand that way, I push for my whole stack. I fact, I WANT him to call for my whole stack here, I desperately need a full double-up.

[MANTIS01]

Yes, playing the devil's advocate myself here buddy by picking at your very reasonable responses....

...but don't you want 6-7 in for the extra 14k on a A K 9 flop....or indeed any other such flop?

[M3boy]

Thanks for the replies.

[Longy]

Its an inexploitable push no matter what range bb calls, you are gaining equity no matter what he does. In actually fact i think its inexploitable up to about 12/13 bb's deep.

[boldie]

you simply have to push...and to contemplate not calling is too bad to be real (I think you know this as you're a good player who just needs some assurance he did the right thing here rather than actually doubting the call). But you want him to double you up.

If the flop comes AK8 or something like that and he has 67 you lose out on 14k..you want to see all 5 cards in this situation and just have to hope you are ahead and stay ahead (or if you're behind that you crack him)..not a lot else you can do.