Call or Fold?

[snoopy1239]

£200 Freezeout.
Starting Stack = 6k
Blinds = 100/200 (25)

Hero (cut-off) = 8.5k -- has a fairly tight image, doesn't play too many hands but was forced to show one failed bluff.
Villain (small blind) = 3k -- was relatively loose early on but has barely played a hand for the last 30 to 45 minutes.
Mateyboy1 (mid pos) = 5k -- a normally passive player, but has raised many hands recently. We have a tell on him  - he doesn't have a monster hand.
Mateyboy2 (mid pos) = 9k -- again, relatively tight, last hand saw him eliminate a player with a set of fours against an overpair after flatcalling a standard pre-flop raise.

Hero =

Mateyboy1 raises to 800
Mateyboy2 calls
Hero calls
Villain moves all-in, 3.125k including blind and ante.
Mateyboy1 passes
Mateyboy 2 passes

It's an extra 2.2k for us to call.

(1) Should we call or fold?

(2) What are the merits/pitfalls of either option?

(3) What do we think Villain has? What is his range?

[boldie]

If Mateyboy without a monster had more chips and was likely to call any shove you made you can argue the shove here as the sidepot would be big enough.
Villain has established a lose image early on, probably thinking that when he onyl starts playing big hands people will call him, and now that he has a hand he can shove and know he's likely to get called.

AJ is a weak holding against a bet and a raise and I expect only your FD to be live as one of the other two must have a bigger Ace than you (or your Ace is the only overcard to Villains pocket pair) so it's a fold for me...calling with AJ suited against 2 people for almost half my chips is something I hate to do.

For me Villain has JJ+ including AK maybe even AQ suited.

[Dewi_cool]

he is shortstack & could be pushing with anything here, plus your getting the odds to call.  INSTACALL

[Longy]

I think your probably getting odds here snoopy, nearly 2 to 1 if im not mistaken. His range is going to be pretty damn tight for us not to call after a bit of maths, break even point appears to be against aq+, 99+ is he tighter or looser than this. In my experience loose live players have a bigger range than this.

[AndrewT]

Isn't there over 5800 in the pot now?

With your tournament life not at stake, instacall, surely?

The villain probably does have a big hand, but he hasn't got enough chips to make you pass.

Though you overcalling in the cutoff does present a juicy pot for button/blinds to squeeze.

[AndrewT]

Ah, now I see.

I wonder if the 'villain' was counting on the 'hero' not knowing he had the odds to call when he made his squeeze?

[action man]

instacall

[boldie]

ah I'm sorry I completely misread the hand...I thought Mateyboy 1 was still in the hand but he has passed.  if Villain indeed hasn't been playing a hand in 30-45 minutes I would be weary of calling with AJ here but you get pot odds against just one other player and you would indeed not put your tourney life on the line..

[MANTIS01]

This situation occurs a LOT and calling now is going to be coin-flipping at best imo...but like the others said...maybe the rewards on offer are sufficient to justify making a crying call.

However, and infinitely more important, is your general poker strategy here.

Why have you flat called the raise pre-flop? Because you don't consider your hand to be strong enough to raise and you don't want to fold. So you opt to sit on the fence and enter the half-way house of decision making. This strategy leads to this type of dilemma.

You KNOW the original raiser doesn't have a monster and Mateyboy 2 just calls (probably using the spending money he's just won to try and catch a flop again)...so this is what you KNOW. The situation is set up for you to grab the initiative and raise...but you decline the chance to play top-drawer poker and decide to take the "safe" option. The problem is that by doing this you allow the Villain to pounce on the fudging about he sees in front of him to try and exploit the situation (medium pair more than likely) ISN'T IT SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY THIS SORT OF QUALITY POKER WHEN YOU GET NEARER TO THE FELT!

Taking the initiative when you are mid-stacked is so much more difficult. But if you intend to call the extra 2.2k now then re-popping a similar amount pre-flop with POSITON and INFORMATION is without doubt a much better play.

[byronkincaid]

This situation occurs a LOT and calling now is going to be coin-flipping at best imo...but like the others said...maybe the rewards on offer are sufficient to justify making a crying call.

However, and infinitely more important, is your general poker strategy here.

Why have you flat called the raise pre-flop? Because you don't consider your hand to be strong enough to raise and you don't want to fold. So you opt to sit on the fence and enter the half-way house of decision making. This strategy leads to this type of dilemma.

You KNOW the original raiser doesn't have a monster and Mateyboy 2 just calls (probably using the spending money he's just won to try and catch a flop again)...so this is what you KNOW. The situation is set up for you to grab the initiative and raise...but you decline the chance to play top-drawer poker and decide to take the "safe" option. The problem is that by doing this you allow the Villain to pounce on the fudging about he sees in front of him to try and exploit the situation (medium pair more than likely) ISN'T IT SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY THIS SORT OF QUALITY POKER WHEN YOU GET NEARER TO THE FELT!

Taking the initiative when you are mid-stacked is so much more difficult. But if you intend to call the extra 2.2k now then re-popping a similar amount pre-flop with POSITON and INFORMATION is without doubt a much better play.

TBH I prob raise here as well but I don't think it's "top-drawer poker", better hands call, worse hands fold, you have turned your hand into a bluff and therefore may as well do it with ATC.

[AlexMartin]

getting 3-1 you should be insta-calling this puppy with no hesitations.  You are a 3-1 shot against the naughty hands in his range AK/AQ and you are flipping/racing/winning enough of the time to make this unputdownable.

Where do people draw the line calling this. A9? 55?

[MANTIS01]

Today at 07:50:29 amPosted by: byronkincaid

TBH I prob raise here as well but I don't think it's "top-drawer poker", better hands call, worse hands fold, you have turned your hand into a bluff and therefore may as well do it with ATC.

Not sure I agree with that byron. Villain may very well fold his pair of 7's in the face of this action and either of the mateyboys will be forced to muck smaller pairs as well....so you DO actually get better hands to fold.

On the other hand if A-J is the best right now you are denying inferior hands cheap entry and therefore you are quite rightly pressing your advantage with a hand that may very well fall behind after the flop. I don't think this constitutes a bluff.

So taking the initiative can get better hands to fold and enables you to win over 2k risk-free with a mediocre hand by forcing drawing hands out pre-flop. I don't know how you could play this hand any better so it looks like top drawer stuff to me.

[byronkincaid]

yeah that's true, I just feel in this situation you are better off doing it with a better hand or with complete air, not really sure why. If MB1 goes over the top you may be priced in to have to call against what is likely to be a dominating hand.

[JungleCat03]

As played this is an auto call for AJh in my view.

Even if villain only ever tables QQ, KK or AA it's +EV and his range is likely to be very much wider than that, given the inviting size the pot has grown too. You're closing the action too with no need to put any more chips in the pot.