Ladies and Gents, we have a credit crunch

[Bongo]

As someone who thinks that economics and finance are all smoke and mirrors and a house of cards just waiting to collapse, can someone tell me exactly why the BoE should bail out Northern Rock for what are, essentially, bad business decisions (lending money to people who can't afford it)?

Isn't the whole point of capitalism that it is a ruthless system in which bad business decisions are punished (through companies going bust etc).

It's not their loans which are bad, but the way NR itself finances them by borrowing from other commercial institutions. These lenders have crapped themselves after the US sub prime crisis and don't fancy lending money to anyone and so the NR can't carry on as normal.

That's my understanding anyway!

[TightEnd]

As someone who thinks that economics and finance are all smoke and mirrors and a house of cards just waiting to collapse, can someone tell me exactly why the BoE should bail out Northern Rock for what are, essentially, bad business decisions (lending money to people who can't afford it)?

Isn't the whole point of capitalism that it is a ruthless system in which bad business decisions are punished (through companies going bust etc).

It's not their loans which are bad, but the way NR itself finances them by borrowing from other commercial institutions. These lenders have crapped themselves after the US sub prime crisis and don't fancy lending money to anyone and so the NR can't carry on as normal.

That's my understanding anyway!

yes this is the whole "financial lending is a house of cards" point..once one too many cards is removed as has been the case in the US the system seizes up

[Robert HM]

As someone who thinks that economics and finance are all smoke and mirrors and a house of cards just waiting to collapse, can someone tell me exactly why the BoE should bail out Northern Rock for what are, essentially, bad business decisions (lending money to people who can't afford it)?

Isn't the whole point of capitalism that it is a ruthless system in which bad business decisions are punished (through companies going bust etc).

If the BoE didnt bail them out the impact of them going bust would be much worse than lending them a few quid. 

And the impact would be?

Chaos

higher unemployment, far worse consumer confidence, recession

If depositors lose confidence in those they deposit with, the whole economy slows down dramatically

Its why the BOE acts as lender of last resort, not to bail out the company but to prevent it having to bail out the consumer


The company: almost certainly will get bought.

At an incredible bargain price

As someone who thinks that economics and finance are all smoke and mirrors and a house of cards just waiting to collapse, can someone tell me exactly why the BoE should bail out Northern Rock for what are, essentially, bad business decisions (lending money to people who can't afford it)?

Isn't the whole point of capitalism that it is a ruthless system in which bad business decisions are punished (through companies going bust etc).

It's not their loans which are bad, but the way NR itself finances them by borrowing from other commercial institutions. These lenders have crapped themselves after the US sub prime crisis and don't fancy lending money to anyone and so the NR can't carry on as normal.

That's my understanding anyway!

Yes, it's just the cash flow that's the problem, they are solvent.

[Bongo]

True, I was just saying it's not the NR lending money to people who can't afford it that has caused their current predicament.

[Graham C]

Enough of this legal mumbo jumbo, am i ever going to be able to afford a house or not?

Not unless you have a huge deposit and earn loads.

[TheChipPrince]

Enough of this legal mumbo jumbo, am i ever going to be able to afford a house or not?

Not unless you have a huge deposit and earn loads.

Oh thx Graham, dream killer...

[AndrewT]

If the whole system is so precarious that one company going bust would lead to economic crisis surely it's going to fall down at some point anyway? Surely such a fragile system is not a desirable thing to base our whole lives on and it would be better long-term for it to fall apart, to be rebuilt in a better way?

And here's a selfish question. As someone who is debt free (no mortgage, credit cards etc) would it not be the case that what I stand to gain from a economic crisis (being able to afford a house, for example) outweighs what I could lose (slightly increased chance of losing my job and not being able to get another one of similar salary).

[Jon MW]

If the whole system is so precarious that one company going bust would lead to economic crisis ...

... but it won't go bust - because the BoE won't let it.

Therefore it's  not precarious at all.

[TightEnd]

If the whole system is so precarious that one company going bust would lead to economic crisis surely it's going to fall down at some point anyway? Surely such a fragile system is not a desirable thing to base our whole lives on and it would be better long-term for it to fall apart, to be rebuilt in a better way?

And here's a selfish question. As someone who is debt free (no mortgage, credit cards etc) would it not be the case that what I stand to gain from a economic crisis (being able to afford a house, for example) outweighs what I could lose (slightly increased chance of losing my job and not being able to get another one of similar salary).

there were queues of depositors outside NR's this morning. Its not the system that is fragile as such as CONFIDENCE. without that, economic growth falters substantially

Selfishly, yes you are right.

[Graham C]

Enough of this legal mumbo jumbo, am i ever going to be able to afford a house or not?

Not unless you have a huge deposit and earn loads.

Oh thx Graham, dream killer...

You can always get 6 times your salary and get one though, you'll just have to eat value baked beans as your staple diet

[jizzemm]

Enough of this legal mumbo jumbo, am i ever going to be able to afford a house or not?

Not unless you have a huge deposit and earn loads.

Oh thx Graham, dream killer...

 

[AndrewT]

there were queues of depositors outside NR's this morning. Its not the system that is fragile as such as CONFIDENCE. without that, economic growth falters substantially

Selfishly, yes you are right.

They also switched their internet banking site off so people couldn't withdraw their money overnight...

[AndrewT]

If the whole system is so precarious that one company going bust would lead to economic crisis ...

... but it won't go bust - because the BoE won't let it.

Therefore it's  not precarious at all.

Where does the BoE get its money from? Is it us, taxpayers?

Apologies for all the simple simon questions, but this whole thing utterly baffles me - I strongly think that economics and global finance share many characteristics of organised religion (essentially a pyramid scheme of confidence and beliefs) and so I want to understand if there are concrete facts which underpin everything.

[kinboshi]

If the whole system is so precarious that one company going bust would lead to economic crisis ...

... but it won't go bust - because the BoE won't let it.

Therefore it's  not precarious at all.

Where does the BoE get its money from? Is it us, taxpayers?

Apologies for all the simple simon questions, but this whole thing utterly baffles me - I strongly think that economics and global finance share many characteristics of organised religion (essentially a pyramid scheme of confidence and beliefs) and so I want to understand if there are concrete facts which underpin everything.

Except there is evidence for the existence of money.  Well some of it.

[kinboshi]

Enough of this legal mumbo jumbo, am i ever going to be able to afford a house or not?

Not unless you have a huge deposit and earn loads.

You actually want a crash in the housing market.  That will help many first-time buyers and those trying to move up the housing ladder.