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jjandellis
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« on: September 22, 2007, 10:43:58 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7006720.stm

Now there's a conversations starter...
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Nakor
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 11:00:55 AM »

Think he has got a point to be honest.

But it is hard to justify sending kids to fight in wars we seemly can't win before you even get into the should we be there debate, and all that builds towards the 'gulf' I guess.

Praised for what they do, confused by why.  Sums it up for me.
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 11:31:29 AM »

"I think the real problem is that the armed forces are at war and the country isn't, therefore there is an inevitable misunderstanding of what our armed forces are doing," he told BBC News 24. " this is the real point he's making and I >think he's right..there's no respect anymore for soldiers as noone has a clue as to what they do or what they go through. Only professionals serve in the army these days and all the "stay at home" types who read the sun and daily mail don't give a crap about what they go through as they don't agree with why a war is being fought in the first place. and they sure as hell don't understand that soldiers don't really have any say in where they fight and what they fight for. They wouldn't know an order if it bit them up the arse and they themselfes 9 out of 10 times won't even fight for their own principles..just moan about it.

the lack of respect people have for soldiers and veterans makes me sick.
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 11:48:46 AM »

These are not wars they are occupations. The enemy/insurgents are the local population, not sure how you are supposed to win. Anybody ever hear of a place called Vietnam.
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 01:18:45 PM »

These are not wars they are occupations. The enemy/insurgents are the local population, not sure how you are supposed to win. Anybody ever hear of a place called Vietnam.

but this has nothing to do with the respect people should give the guys and girls actually going over there and doing the job...
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2007, 01:53:20 PM »

some americans' points of view

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9353773&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 03:46:21 PM »

These are not wars they are occupations. The enemy/insurgents are the local population, not sure how you are supposed to win. Anybody ever hear of a place called Vietnam.

but this has nothing to do with the respect people should give the guys and girls actually going over there and doing the job...

I agree with both of you, this government, for it's own reasons, has put troops where perhaps they shouldn't be. That said I fully support the troops. Brave lads and lasses have gone through gruelling training and are now in the thick of it, and it is a bloody war in Afghanistan. The press haven't given the sort of coverage they gave Vietnam for what reasons thy have and the British public only hear squabbling as to whether it is a legitimate conflict and are not given a full rundown of what is happening. That being the background, you can understand the military top brass for speaking up, again. Bottom line, our troops are at risk, we should be informed and support.

jjandellis, good luck, come back soon and safe.
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2007, 05:14:07 PM »

Lee

its nothing new

20 years ago in Bath i was refused entry from a nightclub because i was "army" i wasnt from a big army base with alot of inter unit fighting

i was visiting my sister for my 18th birthday party

now if it was colchester or another big garrison where fighting could errupt by walking into the wrong bar i could understand it but BATH?
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2007, 05:29:15 PM »

These are not wars they are occupations. The enemy/insurgents are the local population, not sure how you are supposed to win. Anybody ever hear of a place called Vietnam.

I can understand why Iraq is seen as an occupation, but Afghanistan is far from one. The population at large is glad to see the back of the Taliban; yet we did not finish them off properly the first time. Instead they were allowed to regroup and until recently were taking control of areas outside of the capital, most notably in the South. The population are scared witless of the Taliban taking over again.

We are in the country for a host of reasons outlined above. We are not an army of occupation.

We will succeed. It took over 30 years in NI and  about 15 years in Bosnia. We brought stability to Kosovo and Sierra Leone was sorted out in a matter of weeks, when the UN had nearly ruined the place over 2 years. Afghanistan will be a tough nut to crack. We failed 2 centuries ago and the Russians couldn't win. But both armies did not have the skillsets that we employ nowadays. On the one hand we have to undertake the warfighting against the Taliban, whilst on the other we have to win the trust of the locals and rebuild the country. There is no better army in the world at this than the British Army.

Agreed, but it's mindset of the oppos that makes this one a toughie.

Oh and hearts and mind operations, we're second to none.
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2007, 06:31:12 PM »

These are not wars they are occupations. The enemy/insurgents are the local population, not sure how you are supposed to win. Anybody ever hear of a place called Vietnam.

I can understand why Iraq is seen as an occupation, but Afghanistan is far from one. The population at large is glad to see the back of the Taliban; yet we did not finish them off properly the first time. Instead they were allowed to regroup and until recently were taking control of areas outside of the capital, most notably in the South. The population are scared witless of the Taliban taking over again.

We are in the country for a host of reasons outlined above. We are not an army of occupation.

We will succeed. It took over 30 years in NI and  about 15 years in Bosnia. We brought stability to Kosovo and Sierra Leone was sorted out in a matter of weeks, when the UN had nearly ruined the place over 2 years. Afghanistan will be a tough nut to crack. We failed 2 centuries ago and the Russians couldn't win. But both armies did not have the skillsets that we employ nowadays. On the one hand we have to undertake the warfighting against the Taliban, whilst on the other we have to win the trust of the locals and rebuild the country. There is no better army in the world at this than the British Army.

Best of luck to you mate..stay, and come back, safe.
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2007, 12:23:31 AM »


Cash's take on visiting Vietname :

So we sadly sang for them our last song
And reluctantly we said so long
We did our best to let them know that we cared
for every last one of them over there
Whether we belonged over there or not,
somebody loves them and needs them
 
Well now that's about all there is to tell
about our little trip and the livin' hell
and if I ever go back over there again
I hope there's none of our boys to sing for
I hope this ol' war's over with and they're all back home
To stay in peace
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2007, 07:10:13 PM »

Firstly, I make no apologies for this being quite a long post but I hope it helps. Those of you who know me will know I have a great fondness for this country (even with it's faults) and the troops that serve it.

I am proud to say that in Scotland, for the most, support has always been strong for our troops. I also believe that support Nationwide (UK) for the troops is very strong. There has been a campaign ongoing from the 1st announcement of amalgamations of the Scottish Regiments which is actually gaining more pace to the end that there are plans for them to stand in the next election.

http://www.r-o-a-r.org/

Joe public understands that the squaddie is more than just someone who goes around the world killing people. They also understand that as much as the soldier will follow orders, he does not neccessarily agree with some decisions of our political leaders. I have seen comments like "if the soldier doesn't agree then he should not go" it's not an argument I intend to get into as it is not as easy as that.

Our troops are a neccessity, not only on the war front (whether we agree or not) but also at home. As well as serving in Northern Ireland, the Falklands, Serbia, Kosovo and the first Gulf war I also carried out the following during my many years in the Army:

Fireman during the fire strikes (twice)
Rubbish collector during the refuse strikes
Various exercises to provide aid to areas in various parts of the world including the UK when it was so greatly needed.
Assisted with searching for various missing persons, especially children, some who were later found murdered and one of whom a couple of my own soldiers actually located, I cannot begin to describe the effect this had on these guys.

I do disagree also that Joe public doesn't really know what goes on in the life of a soldier these days. With technology so far advanced, the media have the ability to take this to the sitting rooms of all at home. What does dissapoint me at times is what the media deems suitable to show us at home and the soldier, like so many celebrities suffer from the old media "build them up and knock them down again" mentality.

I recentlly watched the televised showing of The Black Watch, a theatre show based on the experiences of some soldiers from one of the countries finest Regiments (now defunct due to amalgamation.) I found this to be one of the best programmes covering life as a soldier and I would recommend anyone to watch it to get a full insight into what a soldier facing the dangers of a place like Iraq or Afghanistan goes through on a daily basis.

http://www.nationaltheatrescotland.com/content/default.asp?page=home_showblackwatch

I for one support the troops fully, it is our leaders who need to take a good look at themselves and ensure that if they are going to ask our troops to risk their lives, that they are given every possible assistance, before, during and especially after any deployment.

 Not a lack of equipment as we have seen on so many of these deployments. The Americans have the best of equipment but some of the worst soldiers to operate them. If British troops had half the support that our American "allies" have it would be so much easier for them.

Lee,

I and my family also wish you well on your deployment and a speedy and safe return. Look forward to seeing you again soon.

Yours aye

Geo.
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2007, 09:03:16 PM »

sarge

you reckon if the british soldier was as well equipped as the americans we would still be as well trained and as well diciplined and as well motivated

i only met with the american troop on a hand full of occasions and i felt that they were so poor due to the fact they were so well equipped they had a feeling they were invincible

maybe the brits would of maintained there skills because we are so small in number but maybe if we were so well equiped we might feel invincilbe and put less effort into maintaining the levels we obtained
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