Rules Question

[johnbhoy76]

What is the correct decision here.

It is pre-flop the blinds are 50/100 there has been no action so far and it comes to a player who says "raise" he then puts a single 1000 chip over the line and then says "three hundred"

He only had 2 x 1000 chips on him.

My take on it is that he is held to a minimum raise as his chip went in before he said "three hundred".

Other folk were saying that he is held to a bet of 1000 as he just said raise and threw in a single 1000 chip. I could understand that if the guy had change but he had no option but to put in his 1000 chip although he should have said the amount prior to doing this not after doing it.

[Ironside]

once he says raise what ever he puts across the line is the raise

so its a raise too 1000

[bhoywonder]

yup with no verbal declaration before it hits the felt wotever he puts across stands

this is the norm anyway

[doubleup]

once he says raise what ever he puts across the line is the raise

so its a raise too 1000

While this is technically correct, I think that this is one of these cases where a bit of leeway is acceptable.  The players intention is clear and he should be allowed to raise 300 and told to be more careful in the future.

[byronkincaid]

where I used to play they would make that a min raise if you only used one chip and didn't say anything (apart from "raise"). never understood why.

[Ironside]

all depends on the time inbetween the chip going in and the verbal declaration

[masterjackblack]

The instant the chip hits the felt he is bound to raise to 1000. Allowing leeway in such circumstances is bad practice as it allows for angle shooting. A player can say raise, throw in an oversize chip, gauge any reactions within a second and then customise the raise accordingly.

[TEX FITZ]

similar at Newcastle, players casually throwing in raises without stating. This stopped once the dealers took over

[jizzemm]

I dont want to start a thread about it, so I will hijack this one..

What is the rule when people show their cards to other people who are not in the hand but are sat at the table. Yesterday i had a decent hand and there was an all in from Short Stack to which i was going to call, then a woman calls the bet, making me think again about the call, i.e did i want to re-raise her or fold my hand to not triple up short stack..

Anyway after a little thinking time, his woman starts talking to the person next to her (did not know him), and starts talking about having a hand, ok I have no problem with this part of the game, but she then promptly shows her the cards, to which he said NH and starts nodding.. So I am now thinking, and decide I want out soley on his reaction to seeing her cards and not her.. I have been 'told' in the past that in this senario the her hand should have been folded and her chips left in the pot, but because I did not know if this was the case, I just moaned a little and folded.. Gutter was after all 5 came down I would have won (i was behind pre flop after seening the all in) but what is the rule?

[doubleup]

Allowing leeway in such circumstances is bad practice as it allows for angle shooting. A player can say raise, throw in an oversize chip, gauge any reactions within a second and then customise the raise accordingly.

I realise that but I have never in ten years of poker at all levels observed someone angle-shooting in this manner.  I'm willing to concede Ironside's point that delay is probably the important factor.  As described in the op there didn't appear to be a lot of delay and it was more likely a minor mistake that, particularly in the case of a novice player, would be better addressed by a verbal clarification. 

[doubleup]

I dont want to start a thread about it, so I will hijack this one..

What is the rule when people show their cards to other people who are not in the hand but are sat at the table. Yesterday i had a decent hand and there was an all in from Short Stack to which i was going to call, then a woman calls the bet, making me think again about the call, i.e did i want to re-raise her or fold my hand to not triple up short stack..

Anyway after a little thinking time, his woman starts talking to the person next to her (did not know him), and starts talking about having a hand, ok I have no problem with this part of the game, but she then promptly shows her the cards, to which he said NH and starts nodding.. So I am now thinking, and decide I want out soley on his reaction to seeing her cards and not her.. I have been 'told' in the past that in this senario the her hand should have been folded and her chips left in the pot, but because I did not know if this was the case, I just moaned a little and folded.. Gutter was after all 5 came down I would have won (i was behind pre flop after seening the all in) but what is the rule?

Both of them should certainly have been warned by the TD.  Although if she actually had a good hand she prob did you a favour results aside.

[Snatiramas]

I say take everybody outside and shoot them all

Hope this helps

[rudders]

once he says raise what ever he puts across the line is the raise. While this is technically correct, I think that this is one of these cases where a bit of leeway is acceptable.  The players intention is clear and he should be allowed to raise 300 and told to be more careful in the future.

[/b][/b]


yep the intention is clear- he said raise then put in 1k chip- could not be more clear- if we give leeway then it leads to confusion and inconsitancy ( and lets face it , we have too much of this in the game). learn the lesson the hard way and dont do it again.

I dont want to start a thread about it, so I will hijack this one..

What is the rule when people show their cards to other people who are not in the hand but are sat at the table. Yesterday i had a decent hand and there was an all in from Short Stack to which i was going to call, then a woman calls the bet, making me think again about the call, i.e did i want to re-raise her or fold my hand to not triple up short stack..

Anyway after a little thinking time, his woman starts talking to the person next to her (did not know him), and starts talking about having a hand, ok I have no problem with this part of the game, but she then promptly shows her the cards, to which he said NH and starts nodding.. So I am now thinking, and decide I want out soley on his reaction to seeing her cards and not her.. I have been 'told' in the past that in this senario the her hand should have been folded and her chips left in the pot, but because I did not know if this was the case, I just moaned a little and folded.. Gutter was after all 5 came down I would have won (i was behind pre flop after seening the all in) but what is the rule?

dont like this- and it is commonplace- as she is not allin there is the chance of further action- therefore she is close to playing "two people to a hand" however as it occurred after she had acted it actually gave you extra information to make the correct fold (regardless of whether you would have hit your 2 outer).  I think it sails close to the edge but she has not disscussed her hand as such and not involved anyone involved in the pot, so folding the hand would be harsh imo. Perhaps a jokey reference to just keeping one person to a hand, with a friendly comment as to why that might be best practice would be my line of action- just prior to a swift fold that is.

just to add my pet hate, which  happened to me last night.  we were last 11 of the 250 Fo in cardiff. I have got short (as usual) and have 4.5bb LAG raises to 3.5bb i push with Kk the bb (experienced player) looks and calls from Bb. Lag tries to reraise (with QQ)  but cant as i underraised.

On the turn when a 4th club comes he turns to the Bb and says" we are checking this down arent we". I inform him politely that he cant say this ( well i wasnt that polite actually , as this is cheating imo)  - i have nut fl at this time. T D comes over to see  what i am getting excited and tells me that if i had called him at the time he would have killed the hand. didnt matter as it happens as the bb riverd a Fh with his TJ to knock me out.  my message is if people blatently say that they are going to check it down call the T D and get there hand killed- I didnt because i didnt want people to think i was pulling a stroke as my tourny life was on the line - I was wrong not to do so.

this is totally different to 2 players checking it down as they know it is the correct thing to do as it is 'understood' not blatent.

rant over.........

[boldie]

once he says raise what ever he puts across the line is the raise

so its a raise too 1000

While this is technically correct, I think that this is one of these cases where a bit of leeway is acceptable.  The players intention is clear and he should be allowed to raise 300 and told to be more careful in the future.

I could not disagree more..the guy should be tought by paying 1k..that he'll remember and it will stop him taking the piss by doing a similar thing next time...especially for drunk players it works wonders

[pffa]

once he says raise what ever he puts across the line is the raise

so its a raise too 1000

correct.