Advice needed (Grosvenor casino)Newcastle

[LLevan]

on the way out he had the cheat to put "my" money on the roulette.

By this posting it appears that they didnt ban him from the casino so surely they have totally condoned his actions of not paying for his declaration to call.

If it was me I'd be going back in there today asking to speak to the manager to get an explanation as to why they didnt enforce the ruling and then had the audacity to allow him to continue to play table games within the casino. I would also expect the manager to clarify as to what security I could expect in the future with regard to cheating etc.

[Wardonkey]

The usual MO for barring someone is to not let them re-enter the premises, rather than wrestle them out of the door.

Speaking with casino management to make sure the bloke is barred, and to seek clarification of what players can expect in this kind of situation, is exactly what should be done.

[LLevan]

If we turned the situation around and the casino caught him playing roulette and placing a late bet on the winning number would they pay him out and then say go ahead and play poker in the poker room with your ill gotten gains. I think not.

He may well be banned from this particular casino and be refused entry the next time he attempts to go in but surely there is no sense in allowing him to continue gambling within the casino once he has been deemed to have broken their rules.

As I stated in a previous post I still think the casino being licensed has an obligation to provide a safe and secure premises to gamble in whether table games or poker and to also enforce their own rules. This was 1 of the reasons behind the prosecution of the Gutshot stating that unlicensed premises could not guarantee punters security regardless of whether or not poker is a game of skill.

If I venture into a casino to play poker I want to feel safe and secure in the knowledge that if any cheating does take place that the casino will stamp it out and also pay me my money and not let some lowlife take it and play it up at the roulette tables. If not the case I may as well play poker at unlicensed premises not knowing whether the game is straight or not. Surely that is the point of applying for and gaining a license to run both casino games and poker which would then be regulated.

[Wardonkey]

We don't really know exactly what happened or the timeframes. I don't know if everyone did their job as well as they should or not, quite probably not.

If someone is caught cheating in any game it's much easier to not pay a bet than it is to get money off someone who is unwilling to part with it.

You can call the the police, but they won't prosecute because it's virtually impossible to convict someone for cheating at poker.

The regulations for card-room games are much more loosely defined than for tables games. The rules and conventions are for the most part left up to the casinos to sort out. Many casinos allow private games in which they play little or no part in the running of and they collect no money from these games, often a casino member will organise, deal and take a rake from these games. Other casinos provide dealers and supervision and charge accordingly.

Find out what the situation is before you sit down, don't sit if you're not comfortable with it. Don't expect the casino to bail you out if someone cheats you, it's you who has been cheated not the casino.

A small percentage of poker players will cheat if they can get away with it, this applies to casino run games, private games and on the internet. If you play enough poker then sooner or later you will get cheated.

I'm not saying that it should be accepted just that it should be expected. The casinos and regulators will not and can not provide the same level of protection on table games and card room games.

[hans47]

I just have to say that guy is lucky he was playing somebody so mild mannered!  Action like that is just welching on your bet and if you don't pay up you get things broke if you can't afford to gamble then don't!

[LLevan]

We don't really know exactly what happened or the timeframes. I don't know if everyone did their job as well as they should or not, quite probably not.

If someone is caught cheating in any game it's much easier to not pay a bet than it is to get money off someone who is unwilling to part with it.

You can call the the police, but they won't prosecute because it's virtually impossible to convict someone for cheating at poker.

The regulations for card-room games are much more loosely defined than for tables games. The rules and conventions are for the most part left up to the casinos to sort out. Many casinos allow private games in which they play little or no part in the running of and they collect no money from these games, often a casino member will organise, deal and take a rake from these games. Other casinos provide dealers and supervision and charge accordingly.

Find out what the situation is before you sit down, don't sit if you're not comfortable with it. Don't expect the casino to bail you out if someone cheats you, it's you who has been cheated not the casino.

A small percentage of poker players will cheat if they can get away with it, this applies to casino run games, private games and on the internet. If you play enough poker then sooner or later you will get cheated.

I'm not saying that it should be accepted just that it should be expected. The casinos and regulators will not and can not provide the same level of protection on table games and card room games.

Good post and I agree with all you say except for the fact that when I go to a casino I expect to get a certain amount of protection against any wrong doing.

[dealerFROMhell]

Casinos can in now way whatsoever garauntee your money in this instance. They can't pin the geezer down and make him give you the cash he owes you. He was either going to pay him, or he wasn't. All they can do is nationally bar him for blatantly cheating at a poker game.

If they didn't ban him, it's simply an unfortunate case of dealing with a completely inept and clueless casino manager that knows nothing about poker, of which I have met many. Why the hell did they have to ring another casino? Where was the card room supervisor? Newcastles card room aint the sharpest tools in the box, i've worked there on a GUKPT, but that's basic poker. If you cant see someones chips, you ask to see them. Simple.

[LLevan]

What then is the point in a representative of the casino making a ruling if they have no intention of enforcing the ruling. To then allow the man to go and play the remaining cash up at 1 of their tables games is absolutely awful behaviour by the casino management.

Personally I would be going back to the casino at some stage today and request a meeting with the management to discover what steps have been put in place to ensure this doesnt happen again and requesting an ex gratia payment from the casino since I would have expected better from the management and I would tell them I expected to play poker in a safe and secure environment and thats why I chose to play at their establishment instead of playing in a back street spieler.

[tikay]

Very rough, but that's life, it happens, it's best just to move on & put it down to experience. Of course, the Casino must ban him, but that's all they, quite reasonably, could or should do.

A tough break, but life does that sometimes, & it stands us in good stead for lifes bumps & bruises. Pursuing a vendetta won't help,  best to just move on.

Unlucky mate.

[tikay]

What then is the point in a representative of the casino making a ruling if they have no intention of enforcing the ruling. To then allow the man to go and play the remaining cash up at 1 of their tables games is absolutely awful behaviour by the casino management.

Personally I would be going back to the casino at some stage today and request a meeting with the management to discover what steps have been put in place to ensure this doesnt happen again and requesting an ex gratia payment from the casino since I would have expected better from the management and I would tell them I expected to play poker in a safe and secure environment and thats why I chose to play at their establishment instead of playing in a back street spieler.

In a cash-game, we are not playing against the House, we are playing against individuals. The Casino cannot be responsible.

Obviously, Roulette & Blackjack are different, they are punter v the House, & debts must be honoured. And are.

[RedFox]

Most games are played in the right spirit and with integrity by all players.

However, to avoid any angle shooting especially if you are playing with strangers always play 'correctly' to avoid any doubt of your intentions and the response of others.

In this case apart from your verbal all in declaration which in itself would be binding, shove your money/chips across the line or whatever and ensure your opponent does the same. No comebacks after that as the money is in the pot.

Even in games where I know the players (maybe because I know what some will do) there have been occasions where I will ask the player calling the bet to move his money across the line to avoid any confusion etc...

[Camouflage]

I know the person in question and have played with him for maybe 2 years or more and i have to say one thing he is not is a cheat he told me the story and i have spoken to other people who were there and they all say Dom hid his chips with his arm on purpose,held £60 in his hand and pushed the 60 in saying 'all in' which to my mind is a little bit naughty in itself.
Now the Dom in question got barred from Aspers for as one of the cardroom supervisors said"a suspicion of cheating with his friends" and some other incident so before everybody says ther,there,there poor Dom i suggest you hear more than one side of the story!
The person in question is an ex officer in the RAF whereas the "victim" has been barred from another casino for similar antics.I probably would have given Dom the benifit of the doubt and payed him the rest but also would have told him in no certain terms that i would never sit on the same poker table as him again.

[snoopy1239]

If you were indeed hiding your chips, then that's extremely bad form. However, the decision did fall in your favour, rightly or wrongly, so your opponent should pay. If someone refuses to abide by the rules or decisions enforced by the casino, then I would be contacting the police.

[bhoywonder]

hey levan

i seen a player earlier called llevan in the $5 rebuy on blonde

totally storming into a massive CL


wasnt u was it?

[goldfoxdom]

I know the person in question and have played with him for maybe 2 years or more and i have to say one thing he is not is a cheat he told me the story and i have spoken to other people who were there and they all say Dom hid his chips with his arm on purpose,held £60 in his hand and pushed the 60 in saying 'all in' which to my mind is a little bit naughty in itself.
Now the Dom in question got barred from Aspers for as one of the cardroom supervisors said"a suspicion of cheating with his friends" and some other incident so before everybody says ther,there,there poor Dom i suggest you hear more than one side of the story!
The person in question is an ex officer in the RAF whereas the "victim" has been barred from another casino for similar antics.I probably would have given Dom the benifit of the doubt and payed him the rest but also would have told him in no certain terms that i would never sit on the same poker table as him again.

im not sayin he cheated, and i did not hide my chips. i am not bothered about the 70 quid or whatever but as the rest of the table said it was not on. and sayin i got banned from aspers for cheating, LOL