money taken from my account by Will Hill

[Tinsel Town]

In this case could the £955 be seen as stolen goods if you like?

For example, if someone stole a car and sold it to me, wouldn't you expect
the police to come round my house and take back the car once the thief was caught?

...if WH gave the £955 back to the cardholder or credit card company
then surely this is just?

 

[doubleup]

so just thinking out loud, I get my old mate Hans over in Germany to ring up the Old Bill and say his CC has been stolen, then he deposits on Blonde, dumps £1K off to me, he gets his money back from the CC company who I assume get it back from tikay and I protest my innocence and get to keep my ill gotten gains. That just don't seem right.

I spoke to a Party dude ages ago who said they were losing millions to CC fraud, I guess the figures would be in their public accounts now?

btw I'm not saying the OP is guilty or anything here, I have heard about kids nicking their Dad's CC and losing money like this and I'm sure there are many ways this could happen. Hope it doesn't happen to me.

Byron

Will hill contact the police to report the fraud and take it from there.  They do not issue their own form of justice - I have never heard of anybody getting money added to their account because they lost to someone who funded an account using a dodgy cc.  There is absolutely no doubt that the OPs funds were at risk in that pot.  If there is proof of wrongdoing fair enough - but there is no way that WH can justify the actions as reported.

 

[lucky_scrote]

I believe that a site owner of another site told me that if money is lost due to fraudery then the site is the one who loses out and there is no way of the site getting that money back (in this example WH).

How you had that money removed from your account is a complete joke, i would not be happy.

[Indestructable]

Again depends on what has happened to the money. I am assuming it has been returned to the card holder that had the money stolen off them.

[doubleup]

Again depends on what has happened to the money. I am assuming it has been returned to the card holder that had the money stolen off them.

The cardholders money is never at risk - he will be refunded by the cc company.  You guys appear to to be missing a big issue here.  We all take on players at the table and put OUR MONEY at risk.  If you are play honestly and win, there is no way that anyone is entitled to take money you won away from you.  WH etc could spend time to verify accounts and ccs before letting anyone play.  They choose not to do that because they think they make more money by not doing it.  That is their risk not ours and they have effectively decided that players will take that risk to increase their profits. 

[dik9]

Most Collusion Monitors get a lock on by the Company regarding any suspicious activity, both accounts of money from depositor to cash out are suspended pending investigation, all previous games, previous action, ip addies, transfer of funds, time of play, chat, previous hands, common players etc, are investigated, this applies to laundering and suspected stolen cards. Donna seems to have had a 3 week investigation starting the day after it has been won, they must have had prior knowledge that a dodgy card was being used and monitored it to lock account within 24 hours of win. I don't know cryptos procedures but the strange thing is reinstating account after the winnings were withdrawn?

[relaedgc]

At the very least ask for professional advice. I can't give you an internet comparison but if someone came into my work with a stolen CC, and then went onto a cash table, and you won £1000 from him, we're not going to say "Give that money back, it was stolen and shouldn't have ever gotten on to the table." We're going to have to cover the costs ourselves. As such, WH should be doing the same. Get advice and take it further.

[lazaroonie]

if WH can retrospectively reclaim "winnings" then all confidence in the system will disappear.

As a punter, you need to be 100% sure that your oppoonent(s) at the table actually have the money sitting in front of them. Otherwise it is as risky as playing some backstreet game where you might get robbed as soon as you step outside.

[Foggy]

Again depends on what has happened to the money. I am assuming it has been returned to the card holder that had the money stolen off them.

The cardholders money is never at risk - he will be refunded by the cc company.  You guys appear to to be missing a big issue here.  We all take on players at the table and put OUR MONEY at risk.  If you are play honestly and win, there is no way that anyone is entitled to take [b]money you won away from you.  WH etc could spend time to verify accounts and ccs before letting anyone play[/b].  They choose not to do that because they think they make more money by not doing it.  That is their risk not ours and they have effectively decided that players will take that risk to increase their profits. 

Couldnt agree more.

They have the software to verify account holders........passwords, they have the software to verify credit cards...........pin numbers, so when we sit at a table to gamble our funds, we should not be in a position to loose, because they have not screened the ooposition at the tables.

IMO that no sites should take monies from anyones account without discussing it with them first

[Compo]

Hi

I do have some some experience of this as I sit on the IBAS panel which adjudicates inlive and internet betting/casino disputes  Firstly the operator is well within their rights to withold funds if they suspect collision. It doesn't have to be proved, just suspected. Chip dumping/collusion with stolen funds is rife on the internet and it is unfortunate when innocent parties are involved. there are cases when anyone playing on the same table as a supected user of a stolen cc has their funds frozen regardless of whether they have played a hand agianst the suspect or not.

The reason the operators give for witholding funds is that thay are waiting for a chargeback from the relevant card company. unfortunately there is no time limit on this process so in reality funds can be frozen forever locked in a cyberspace bank. this is clearly unfair however no-one said life was fair.

i suggest you contact IBAS at PO box 44781, london sw1w 0wr (tel 020 7881 2690) and request a complaints form.  the priocess will involve the case being sent to the panel for adjudication where the hand history for concerned parties wil be iinvestigated and a some of the brightest brains (!) in britain will rule on the case. Al operators who are registered with IBAS must conform with the ruling presented by the panel. IE if they find in your favour you will get your money refunded. If the panel decide that collusion did take place then you have done your dough.

[donna8880]

thanks for all the info and replies guys, u have been a big help and ill try some of the suggestions youve made

[thediceman]

Wish I had known about the IBAS when I had my dispute with William Hill. How long has this been set up???. Instead I had to put up with being ignored even though my case was fair simplier than donnas. The police were useless as were WH customer service. It was only ever got sorted out because fo the blonde network and it's relationship with bobby1 and him sorting it out.

Re: IBAS, should not every online site and live casino have the obligation to give these details to any customer who has a compliant otherwise how will individuals know of IBAS and it's service???

[DTD-James]

Hi Dona8880,

We have re-investigated your query today and if you would like any further clarification on the decisions made please PM me directly.

Thanks

[bolt pp]

go smash up a will hills if there's one near you

[wader leg]

Hi

I do have some some experience of this as I sit on the IBAS panel which adjudicates inlive and internet betting/casino disputes  Firstly the operator is well within their rights to withold funds if they suspect collision. It doesn't have to be proved, just suspected. Chip dumping/collusion with stolen funds is rife on the internet and it is unfortunate when innocent parties are involved. there are cases when anyone playing on the same table as a supected user of a stolen cc has their funds frozen regardless of whether they have played a hand agianst the suspect or not.

The reason the operators give for witholding funds is that thay are waiting for a chargeback from the relevant card company. unfortunately there is no time limit on this process so in reality funds can be frozen forever locked in a cyberspace bank. this is clearly unfair however no-one said life was fair.

i suggest you contact IBAS at PO box 44781, london sw1w 0wr (tel 020 7881 2690) and request a complaints form.  the priocess will involve the case being sent to the panel for adjudication where the hand history for concerned parties wil be iinvestigated and a some of the brightest brains (!) in britain will rule on the case. Al operators who are registered with IBAS must conform with the ruling presented by the panel. IE if they find in your favour you will get your money refunded. If the panel decide that collusion did take place then you have done your dough.

For a member of an "Independent panel "it seems quite clear you lean more to protecting the site rather than the consumer.

Also, this from IBAS homepage...

IBAS is a non-statutory service and its rulings are not enforceable in law.

Not much kop then is it?