Neteller Security - Titan poker withdrawal clarification

[patman]

Apologies for taking a while but i have had to work my way through Neteller customer service and then security and then up the chain to get an answer.

the basic question asked by folks and Tikay wanted clarification on was how and why Titan could reclaim monies paid into my neteller account and why Neteller allowed it to happen which is the bigger issue.

I have cut and pasted the back and forward but basically it comes down to Titan telling neteller that it was a processing error to pay the money in..which it wasnt  - Neteller then allowed the reclaim of the funds. I have responded as neteller have dodged the main thrust of the question..i.e titan have nothing to do with this its a neteller issue.

anyway read if you want and i`ll revert if i get a suitable answer...but i believe it does not bode well that if you are in dispute with a site neteller will blindly allow a reclaim of funds without clarification.

any thoughts let me know
 

-----Original Message-----
From: "PATRICK MCCRORY" To: pr@neteller.com
Subject: RE: unauthorised withdrawal


Hi,
my account number is **************
 
i have already been in contact wuth your security department who asked me to contact you.
 
Basically i withdrew from a gambling site 225 dollars to my neteller account . this shows as being deposited on the 18th october at 00.16. This is fine and ok.
at 04.02 ther is a withdrawal from my neteller account using the same description for the same amount. i.e the money has been withdrawn from my neteller account back to the gambling site.
 
I did not authorise or action this and i did not approve this. Nobody at all knows my security details.
I immediately contacted the site and they have re deposited the money to my neteller account. I have also had words with them on this matter
 
What i would like a clear and defined answer to is how money can be taken from my neteller account without my having been the person who did it. this i believe to be the main issue
 
I and several others have experienced this and are very very concerned that neteller allowed this to happen. We use neteller because you have the reputation of being the best.
 
Can you please investigate and respond
 
regards
 
Patrick McCrory

Response

Dear Mr. Mccrory,

  Transfers from merchant sites are subject strictly to the policies and procedures in place with those merchants. NETeller does not hold any authority or jurisdiction over merchant withdrawal policies or claimed winnings, and cannot override merchant decisions in regards to these
transactions. 

NETeller had been advised that the transfer in question needed to be cancelled after it had been sent to your NETeller Account due to a processing error.  After reviewing your NETeller Account details, I see that the funds have since been processed to your NETeller Account successfully.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,

PR@NETeller.comToll Free: 888.258.5859
Local: 403.233.9466
Fax: 888.678.2128
Local Fax: 403.277.7996
www.NETeller.com

My reponse

thank you for the reponse. I still find this wholly unsatisfactory. You took the word of the site that the transaction had a processing error..which it did not and without verifying with myself you allowed this to be taken from my account.
The policies of the merchant site in question are not the point.
 The point is that once money is in my neteller account it should not be allowed to move without my approval or the opportunity to verify the claim made by the merchant.
 
this does not give confidence that if i am ever in dispute with a site that you will blindly take the word of a merchant and allow access to my funds.
I would therefore still like clarifed why neteller allowed the removal of funds in the first place and also why you did not seek my opinion or verification that this was correct


 
 
 

[tikay]

EXCELLENT stuff patman. Keep us updated please. This is extraotrdinary, imo.

[Dewi_cool]

Unacceptable 

I have just opened a Neteller account thinking I could withdraw Titan funds and move them elsewhere, Betfair for example, I was told That I cannot withdraw funds in to Neteller as I had not used them to deposit, whats all that about.

I only did this to start with after being asked for copies of credit  card and driving Licence, which was a hassle, snd decided to open neteller account, what difference is it to Titan where and how I move MY money

[Ironside]

as i stated previously it looks like titan cancelled the payment with neteller (some sort of clerical error) this is standard pratice in the banking industry as humans make mistakes (people putting 10 million in the wrong account by typing in wrong account number) neteller would have just cancelled the payment rather than titan withdrawing it as they are a merchant titan can cancell payments sue to error (in a certain time period)

[Ironside]

dewi lets say barclays bank put money into a RBS bank account but had 1 digit in the account number wrong, barclays spot the mistake and contact RBS to cancel the payment RBS then withdraw from the account it was pay into and barclays then pay it into the proper account

that is the same proceedure here expect titan was meant to put it into your account

they cancelled the payment

then made the same payment

[Dewi_cool]

oh ok, but why cant I withdraw in to Neteller then ?

[patman]

as i stated previously it looks like titan cancelled the payment with neteller (some sort of clerical error) this is standard pratice in the banking industry as humans make mistakes (people putting 10 million in the wrong account by typing in wrong account number) neteller would have just cancelled the payment rather than titan withdrawing it as they are a merchant titan can cancell payments sue to error (in a certain time period)

Ironside i have no problem with mistakes and i have no problem with Titan at all apart from their cock up which precipitated this in the first place..However and thats with a capital H i expect to be consulted , particularly if the money shows as on my account.
Neteller should not be taking anyones word that it was a mistake, brainfart/whatever without verifying with me first....defeats the point of security.
its my account not Titans or anyone else.

as for the mistake the first payment was perfectly correct with no error so no need for cancellation at all.

thats what i`m driving at.

[Robert HM]

Dewi, I think Stars and possibly others have trhe same policy, it's to stop you using them to launder cash from one account to another.

[Dewi_cool]

Damn they are on to me   

[Ironside]

ok pat say titan put $40000 into you account by error and neteller said hey pat that $40000 in your account titan put in they say on error can we give them it back you say no then what?

so merchants can stop a payment with in a certain time limit (normally before it shows on your account) and then reissue the payment its standard practise

[Robert HM]

'ello 'ello 'ello Mr Cool 

[patman]

I hear you Ironside and i also see how that can be a problem and understand the logic..i appreciate the info and response

but looking in the mirror of that if i withdraw from a site winnings or monies and the site decides for whatever reason that they dont think im entitled to it then they can claim"it was a clerical error" take it back and there is nothing i can do as its a gambling site and i have to argue with them. Its a kind of David and goliath situation and if they dumped 40k in my account i suspect it wouldnt take them long to prove it and get it back.

i generally believe that to err on the side of the account holder until proven otherwise is the correct interpetation. and on this ocassion the original deposit was correct and should not have been cancelled which kind of proves my point. Kudos to Titan for soring it quickly and professioanlly but i still have an issue with Neteller on this .

All i am asking them to do is to clarify why they allowed it and what their policy is crystal clear". To date no one at neteller seems to be able to give a concise logical explanation. If their logic is as you state then they should say this and then i can make an informed decison on whether i wish to stay with neteller based on this...

either way i just want them to clarify instead of shilly shally

[suzanne]

I tried to deposit into Titan with my neteller account and it wouldnt let me, insufficient funds which was strange as the cash was there, so I deposited instead with my credit card. I tried to withdraw 80% into my neteller and was told a bankers draft would be in the post. I emailed Titan and asked if the funds could be deposited into my neteller if I gave them my acc number and if not then could they please make the bankers draft for the total amount. I got an email back saying it would not be a problem depositing into my neteller as they had my details from my first attempt at payment. So  to Titan. Dewi why dont you email them suggesting that you make a small donation into your account so they will have your details on record and ask if you can then withdraw via neteller. Just a thought but they might go with it???

[Dewi_cool]

  Suzanne , thanks for the    I will give it a try   hope it works,     

[suzanne]

  Dewi... hope it works