Tounry, just past bubble. Big(ish) decision.

[RichEO]

As there were all-ins I got the luxury of seeing everyones hand, which is lovely - it should happen more often.

Please tell me what you would have done on the flop and why?

Was a flat call good play so I could get away cheaply if the other big stack showed interest or should I have been reraising to indicate strength so he would go away and leave me with the short stacks. Should I be calling to house up, I am a little scared of a straight here, 10J if a very limpable hand. Or do you push to isolate and try and stop draws.

When he pushed it looked like he was stopping me from drawing, isolating the short stacks and wanted me out! It looked to me like he could have a set of eights or nines to push 14k in. I was itching to call but my stack was decent and I had plenty of play if I folded. If I had 8k I'm sure I would have called. If I'd had 5k I'm sure I'd have pushed on the flop!

Ignoring what Nei actually had (becuase it doesn't make sense )... KK slow played pre flop with 3 limpers infron of him!!!!! How can he not raise  What hand should I be putting him on there... was a set logical?

We were at about 16 players left, top 20 paid out, but only a pitiful $13 until FT.

Game #6125989734: $1000 Guaranteed (ID5799840) $10+$1 - Hold'em NL (200/400) - 2007/11/02 - 02:21:12 (UK)
Table "5799840 - 2" Seat 6 is the button.
Seat 1: Trublusky (12260 in chips)
Seat 2: The_Curse (3140 in chips)
Seat 4: Nei040522 (15050 in chips)
Seat 5: Walt05031 (16749 in chips)
Seat 6: Thetic (20800 in chips)
Seat 7: Tucker007 (12316 in chips)
Seat 8: Kk_rock (16238 in chips)
Seat 9: Lucas75 (3563 in chips)
Seat 10: RichEO (13710 in chips)
Tucker007: posts the ante 50
Kk_rock: posts the ante 50
Lucas75: posts the ante 50
RichEO: posts the ante 50
Trublusky: posts the ante 50
The_Curse: posts the ante 50
Nei040522: posts the ante 50
Walt05031: posts the ante 50
Thetic: posts the ante 50
Tucker007: posts small blind 200
Kk_rock: posts big blind 400
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to RichEO [ ]
Lucas75: calls 400
RichEO: calls 400
Trublusky: folds
The_Curse: calls 400
Nei040522: calls 400
Walt05031: folds
Thetic: folds
Tucker007: calls 200
Kk_rock: checks
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Tucker007: checks
Kk_rock: checks
Lucas75: bets 800
RichEO: calls 800
The_Curse: raises to 2690 and is all-in
Nei040522: raises to 14600 and is all-in
Tucker007: folds
Kk_rock: folds
Lucas75: is all-in 2313
RichEO: folds
Returned uncalled bets 11,487 to Nei040522
----- TURN ----- [ ][]
----- RIVER ----- [ ][]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Nei040522: shows [ ] (Three of a kind, Kings, Ten high)
Lucas75: shows [ ] (A Pair of Nines, Ace high)
The_Curse: shows [ ] (A Pair of Tens, Ace high)
Nei040522 collected 846 from Side pot #1
Nei040522 collected 11720 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 12566 Main pot 11720 Side pot #1 846 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 2: The_Curse showed [ ] and lost with A Pair of Tens, Ace high
Seat 4: Nei040522 showed [ ] and won (12566) with Three of a kind, Kings, Ten high
Seat 5: Walt05031 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Thetic (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Tucker007 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Kk_rock (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Lucas75 showed [ ] and lost with A Pair of Nines, Ace high
Seat 10: RichEO folded on the Flop

[Longy]

I think limping/raising are both fine preflop depends on how the table is playing generally.

On the flop im thinking, im not folding this like ever and looking to get my money in. I raise the first stab of 800 to 3000 to isolate and push out draws. When i have called im still calling the big stack its an $11 tourney and expect them to have a big range, also gambling it up here I like to do with the bubble burst its time to try and win the thing. Making money in MTT's is about finishing in the top 3 places not 10th.

[kinboshi]

Can't see me folding a set here. 

I'm betting the flop fairly smallish to hopefully induce a raise, which I'll then 3-bet (probably all-in).  If he shoves, then I'm more than likely calling, unless I 'know' he's got me beaten.

[steeveg]

limping is fine, and to be honest after so many raises and re raises you have to think on a board like that someone has connected,i mean you have to think what can you beat so many players all in on 2 pair,or draw,i would of thought ,no,if any trips  your in bad shape as you have bottom set, very hard to fold but fold was not bad to me,as you are going to jump in the money, you could take the chance and call if straights  to beat then its 2/1 for your full house, which i why i would of called ,win this one and your hard to stop in tournament,you can see players where just satisfied to get in the money, played loose and tossed there money in with very poor hands but you wouldnt know that during the hand,only player who played the hand ok was yourself i think, i would  take notes on the players for future,

[LuckyLloyd]

Limping behind pre is ok as your hand can't stand a re - raise behind and all the big stacks have yet to act.

Post flop like just never fold. I really dislike calling the 800 from the shortstack because there is no guarantee that it will be raised behind you. There are so many cards you would prefer not to see on the turn because they will potentially kill your action. So make it 2500 - 3000 and fistpump call a shove // shove pretty much every turn for the remainder if someone calls.

As played, I know there is a lot of action behind. But people play bad; you have have decentish equity against the flopped nuts; the real money is top three; blah, blah. Hero folding a set here is not something I would ever do particularly given the shallowness of our stack at the start of the hand and the size of the pot.

[Ironside]

i am looking at playing against a made straight here and would relucantly fold

the only thing keeping me keen would be the odds the pots giving me to hit my house

but with so much intrest in the pot i am thinking the offs aint good as i am likely against a straight, and an over set or 2 pairs

giving me 1 out

fold em like a man and look for a better spot

as it happens you werent against poker players and it turns out to be a game of bingo but you pays your money you take your chances

[RichEO]

I wasn't worried about preflop play, I have enough chips to limp and try and hit a set, and that's what I did.

I almost NEVER fold a set but I really didn't like bottom set vs a 789 board. I had a feeling the big stack could only push with 88, 99, 56 or maybe 89. And the chances were I was beat if that was the case.

I was pretty deep at that time (well, deep enough). I always try for the win in these things, if folding would have left me short, I wouldn't have considered it.

I ended up 5th in the tourny after a flush draw hit when we he called allin on a paired board, winning that hand would have put me chip leader with 5 left. So folding here didn't affect my chances of winning the tourny (too much).

Heeding your advice..

Raising on the flop to 3,000 looks like the play. Now, if the big stack (stupidly) pushes all-in over the top, do you consider folding now? As he has shown more strength than before (when I folded!). But do you feel comitted with 3k in there. Are you going for broke on this hand anyway?

[RichEO]

Limping behind pre is ok as your hand can't stand a re - raise behind and all the big stacks have yet to act.

Post flop like just never fold. I really dislike calling the 800 from the shortstack because there is no guarantee that it will be raised behind you. There are so many cards you would prefer not to see on the turn because they will potentially kill your action. So make it 2500 - 3000 and fistpump call a shove // shove pretty much every turn for the remainder if someone calls.

When I called the 800 I wasn't looking for a raise behind me, I was looking to keep the pot small and to hopefully pair the board on the turn. Overall I wanted the big stack to go away and I'd have called the short stacks for 3k.

As played, I know there is a lot of action behind. But people play bad; you have have decentish equity against the flopped nuts; the real money is top three; blah, blah. Hero folding a set here is not something I would ever do particularly given the shallowness of our stack at the start of the hand and the size of the pot.

Shallow stack? It didn't feel shallow. I had 35 big blinds. I know there is an ante on, but I think I steal better then.

I wasn't worried about the amount of action behind me in that 2 short stacks pushed in for 3k, it was purely the big stack for 14k, that as you can see made it a hard decision. He didn't want me drawing and it smelt of over set.

[LuckyLloyd]

Raising on the flop to 3,000 looks like the play. Now, if the big stack (stupidly) pushes all-in over the top, do you consider folding now? As he has shown more strength than before (when I folded!). But do you feel comitted with 3k in there. Are you going for broke on this hand anyway?

I probably still go broke yes.

[RichEO]

Hmm, maybe he pushes with 1010 too. I should have called and then had a 2 outer hit me

[LuckyLloyd]

Limping behind pre is ok as your hand can't stand a re - raise behind and all the big stacks have yet to act.

Post flop like just never fold. I really dislike calling the 800 from the shortstack because there is no guarantee that it will be raised behind you. There are so many cards you would prefer not to see on the turn because they will potentially kill your action. So make it 2500 - 3000 and fistpump call a shove // shove pretty much every turn for the remainder if someone calls.

When I called the 800 I wasn't looking for a raise behind me, I was looking to keep the pot small and to hopefully pair the board on the turn. Overall I wanted the big stack to go away and I'd have called the short stacks for 3k.

As played, I know there is a lot of action behind. But people play bad; you have have decentish equity against the flopped nuts; the real money is top three; blah, blah. Hero folding a set here is not something I would ever do particularly given the shallowness of our stack at the start of the hand and the size of the pot.

Shallow stack? It didn't feel shallow. I had 35 big blinds. I know there is an ante on, but I think I steal better then.

I wasn't worried about the amount of action behind me in that 2 short stacks pushed in for 3k, it was purely the big stack for 14k, that as you can see made it a hard decision. He didn't want me drawing and it smelt of over set.

I wouldn't really want to keep the pot small. We have the best hand so, so often!! I want to get re - raised and ship the lot in on that flop. In a limped pot in a $10MTT people (big stacks or not) will stack off with 109, 108, 107. 98. 78. 97, 1010, A9, 66. Obviously JJ - AA shouldn't be out there given preflop which makes things tighter - but I really like our hand in this spot. And, as I said - if the guy does have a flopped straight we can dog him anyway!!

And 35BBs is quite shallow because if we play a raised or re - raised pot we are unlikely to face decisions beyond the flop so can't really outplay people; with 15 min blinds we will get short soon enough if we do nothing; lose one decentish pot and we are in trouble. In my view, we should be delighted to get a lot of money into the pot as soon as possible.

Nice run in the tourney by the way.

[TheChipPrince]

I would over-raise the flop bet to 4500... The way it played out, I would call...