Ruling Debate ?

[BIG-SLICK-POKER]

Taken From www.Boards.ie

Im sure this has been posted here and sorted out plenty of times before, i just havn't seen it. When people say ''you must show both cards to claim a pot'', does this rule always apply?
Say there are 2 players in a pot, 1 flops a flush draw, the other flops to pair.
The guy with the draw bets out on the flop, top pr flat calls, same again on the turn. On the river the 1st guy misses his draw and decides hes not gona bluff at it, so he mucks his hand knowing he cant win. Does the remaining player have to show his cards to claim the pot?

I always say no he doesnt, as he is the last remaining player in the hand. It seems logical and very straightforward, but there always seems to be 1 argumentative tit who says otherwise. In particular, this (almost exact) situation happened in the IPO at my table, in which case, the dealer decided the guy had to turn over his hand, despite the other player mucking his.

Ruling please...........



I said i would get the opinion of the Blonde Forum also on this

[Ironside]

if only one player in pot he doesnt need to show

just the same as if he bet and the otehr player mucjed he doesnt need to show

[portfolio]

its  NOT a showdown, so deffo no.


unsure tho how the request of another player to be shown hand can be argueed.

[doubleup]

In some cardrooms e.g. Aviation Club you must show your hand in a tournament when the other player mucks on the river. 

[MANTIS01]

My understanding is that the winning hand must be shown in order to claim the pot. It is possible that the board could be showing say  and the winning player could also be holding  . So the possibility of a corrupt deck means this rule is enforced by some casinos.

Playing in Vegas once I showed  on a 4 spade board....other player said it was good and I mucked the other card. The dealer pushed the pot to the other guy...whose cards were still "live". He said the other card could also be the  and so my hand was dead.

[Ironside]

My understanding is that the winning hand must be shown in order to claim the pot. It is possible that the board could be showing say  and the winning player could also be holding  . So the possibility of a corrupt deck means this rule is enforced by some casinos.

Playing in Vegas once I showed  on a 4 spade board....other player said it was good and I mucked the other card. The dealer pushed the pot to the other guy...whose cards were still "live". He said the other card could also be the  and so my hand was dead.

so you saying if i bet of river and a guy folds i have to show my hand INCASE there are 2 in the pack

your wrong here sorry

[doubleup]

Ironside - regardless of the reasoning, I assure you that in some cardrooms this is a rule in tournaments.  I specifically queried it at the Aviation club.  I checked the river and my opponent mucked his cards and I had to show.

[Dewi_cool]

Taken From www.Boards.ie

Im sure this has been posted here and sorted out plenty of times before, i just havn't seen it. When people say ''you must show both cards to claim a pot'', does this rule always apply?
Say there are 2 players in a pot, 1 flops a flush draw, the other flops to pair.
The guy with the draw bets out on the flop, top pr flat calls, same again on the turn. On the river the 1st guy misses his draw and decides hes not gona bluff at it, so he mucks his hand knowing he cant win. Does the remaining player have to show his cards to claim the pot?

I always say no he doesnt, as he is the last remaining player in the hand. It seems logical and very straightforward, but there always seems to be 1 argumentative tit who says otherwise. In particular, this (almost exact) situation happened in the IPO at my table, in which case, the dealer decided the guy had to turn over his hand, despite the other player mucking his.

Ruling please...........



I said i would get the opinion of the Blonde Forum also on this

no need to show, not table 75 was it?

[Ironside]

Ironside - regardless of the reasoning, I assure you that in some cardrooms this is a rule in tournaments.  I specifically queried it at the Aviation club.  I checked the river and my opponent mucked his cards and I had to show.

it maybe a rule in some cardrooms but its just plain wrong

lets say i want to find out what a player has but i dont want to call a bet

just muck on river before he bets and you get free info

WRONG

anotehr reason for a set of standard rules

if a player thinks something fishy is going on they can call for the TD to examine the cards to check there is no chip dumping

but the cards should not be shown to the table

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Here's how i see it...

If there are you and another guy in the pot, and at any time before the river he mucks his hand - then you take the pot, no need to show to claim...

But if on the river it goes, check, check, or bet call, or whatever and he knows there is no way he can be winning and just mucks, then you have to show your hand to win the pot (as it is at showdown), but also, if you wanted to see his cards that he felt the need to muc, you can request that too.

[Ironside]

Here's how i see it...

If there are you and another guy in the pot, and at any time before the river he mucks his hand - then you take the pot, no need to show to claim...

But if on the river it goes, check, check, or bet call, or whatever and he knows there is no way he can be winning and just mucks, then you have to show your hand to win the pot (as it is at showdown), but also, if you wanted to see his cards that he felt the need to muc, you can request that too.

but if it goes deal of river, muck, ? before the final person has a chance to act

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Here's how i see it...

If there are you and another guy in the pot, and at any time before the river he mucks his hand - then you take the pot, no need to show to claim...

But if on the river it goes, check, check, or bet call, or whatever and he knows there is no way he can be winning and just mucks, then you have to show your hand to win the pot (as it is at showdown), but also, if you wanted to see his cards that he felt the need to muc, you can request that too.

but if it goes deal of river, muck, ? before the final person has a chance to act

no show needed

[Ironside]

Here's how i see it...

If there are you and another guy in the pot, and at any time before the river he mucks his hand - then you take the pot, no need to show to claim...

But if on the river it goes, check, check, or bet call, or whatever and he knows there is no way he can be winning and just mucks, then you have to show your hand to win the pot (as it is at showdown), but also, if you wanted to see his cards that he felt the need to muc, you can request that too.

but if it goes deal of river, muck, ? before the final person has a chance to act

no show needed

which is the question from the OP and the question we have been answering

[doubleup]

Look you guys can prattle on about what should be and what might be as much as you like, but it is the rule in some cardrooms e.g. the aviation club, that if the other player mucks on a check/check river, in a tournament, you have to show your cards to get the pot.  I specifically queried this and was told that it was the rule by the dealer and this was confirmed by other players. 

[Ironside]

Look you guys can prattle on about what should be and what might be as much as you like, but it is the rule in some cardrooms e.g. the aviation club, that if the other player mucks on a check/check river, in a tournament, you have to show your cards to get the pot.  I specifically queried this and was told that it was the rule by the dealer and this was confirmed by other players. 

it wasnt check checked

its river dealt MUCK before final person gets chance to act