blinds at Gala have become a bad joke

[RED-DOG]

"Whats wrong with you guys"?

Has there been a post criticising Rob?

Not directly, but there has been criticism of his cardroom. WE take this personally, even though some things are out of our control. This is why we get frustrated. If someone criticised the casino I work for, then I too would feel (as the person that represented it on this forum) that the posts would be pointing vaguely in my direction. Criticism is made for an outcome, therefore as representatives we feel we should pass it on to the changemakers. It is good to hear voices, so we know what you feel we are doing wrong. Somethings we can change and something we can't (this one is extremely frustrating, especially when WE agree).

I don't understand, your post seems to contradict itself

On the one hand you say "We take criticism personally"

On the other you say "It is good to hear voices, so we know what you feel we are doing wrong."

So what are we to do, speak up, or shut up?

[dik9]

Speak up so that we can pass it on (or if we have the authority, do somethings ourselves), and it does get passed on. Then errrrrrrrm.....well its out of our hands then

[Nightfly]

Capping Blinds and the myth of the Crapshoot.

All too often the £100 PLHE First Sunday of the Month ends in a chip count (6 times out of 9 this year) these chip counts are usually 5 or six way affairs.

The competition runs for 7 and a half hours and the blinds are capped at 5000/10000.

There have been suggestions made that they be capped at a lower level to allow for more play.

This was the situation in October (first: what could happen followed by what did happen)

104 players
£30,900 Prize pool
620,000 chips in play.

In an ideal world:

The final table would start with the blinds at 1,500/3,000 for one round of the table.
The 10 Players would have an average stack of 62,000 representing just under 19 Big Blinds.
During this round two players would go out making the average chip stack 77,500 representing over 19 BBs with the blinds at 2000/4000
During this level two more go out… average stack 103,000 = over 17 BBs with blinds at 3000/6000
During this level two more go out, Leaving four players … with the blinds at 4000/8000, average stack is 155,000 = just over 19 BBs

At the end of this level the blinds will go up to 5000/10000 (the final level)
If 4 still remain, 155,000 = 15.5 BBs
If 3 remain,  206,000 = 20 BBs
If 2 remain, 310, 000 = 31 BBs

There would be just over 2 Hours of play in this final and at no point does the average stack look uncomfortable in relation to the blinds.

This is perfectly possible to achieve and should be what all players are aiming for.

What actually happened:

With the blinds at 1500/3000 there were still 12 players left. (OK only ever so slightly behind target) By now the remaining players had all made the money… 20 places paid 20th to 11th all getting £300.
Blinds went up to 2000/4000 and after a short while one of the 12 went out collecting £300 on his way.

At this point with 11 players left, the average stack is just under 58,000 which is equal to 14.5 Big Blinds (enough options for play at this level)

The blinds went up to 3000/6000 – Now only 9BBs for average stack.

The blinds went up to 4000/8000 – BB ratio down to 7 and a bit as long as you have average chips.

The blinds went up to 5000/10,000 Average stack is now a little over 5 Big Blinds.

And still there are 11 players!

The Bubble was 10 positions ago.

Finally at 4.40 am one goes out and the lucky finalists are now able to play for the big money. For 30 whole minutes!

The whole farce ended in an 8 way chip count.

At what point should the blinds have been capped to allow for more play?

Because as far as I could see this had long before ceased being a poker competition where players compete against each other. People were passing all sorts of cards you would normally expect them to play.

Nobody was playing anything. Especially not Poker.


Something needs to change.

It ended up by being what most players call a crapshoot.

The structure is absolutely playable as demonstrated in the top example.

Who caused the Crapshoot? The structure or the players themselves?

You decide.

[Royal Flush]

At this point with 11 players left, the average stack is just under 58,000 which is equal to 14.5 Big Blinds (plenty of play at this level)

It's funny how poker players and cardroom manger's seem to have this diffrent idea of what play is....

[Nightfly]

14.5 BBs allows considerably more play than 5 BBs

and if you consider this instance I don't think any of the 11 players knew what Play is.

If play is sitting and waiting for AA while everyone else does the same then, yes my ideas are slightly different.

Players can choose to play while the Blinds are lower or they can wait until they are far too big and then moan about it.


It is also possible to manage a card-room AND play poker.

[Royal Flush]

If the structure was long enough, then the best player would win EVERY time, as the game would go on forever....


Anyway....my point is if the average is 14.5bb then you will have some players on 30 bb and some on 5. Now how in the world are you supposed to make a creative raise in MP with T8s when the button only has 3 BB's and will push any half decent hand??

This leads too everyone having to just play the good hands as you can't put in many steals.

[Bongo]

If the structure was long enough, then the best player would win EVERY time, as the game would go on forever....

Isn't that known as a cash game?

[Royal Flush]

If the structure was long enough, then the best player would win EVERY time, as the game would go on forever....

Isn't that known as a cash game?

Yes.

[Karabiner]

Flushy if the best player won EVERY time nobody would play.

This argument of yours is totally unsustainable  >:?

[Royal Flush]

If you played a tournament with staring stacks of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 and the blinds fixed at 1-2, the best player will win.

[Karabiner]

Yes Flushy but we are in the real world here 

[Nightfly]

This leads too everyone having to just play the good hands as you can't put in many steals.

This is a decision which only the players can choose to make.

I think you have missed my point somewhat.

The competition structure is a constant. The blinds increase as they always have done they start at a certain level and they end at a certain level. They are a known commodity. Each and every player in the competition has to decide how they are going to approach this.

A competition with a 20 minute clock HAS a 20 minute clock. This fact should not come as a surprise to players in the later stages of the tournament... it should already be a part of their game plan.

We can give you the chips, we can give you the cards and tables but we CANNOT play the game for you.

Wait for great cards by all means, but if this means that the blinds are increasing around you then don't forget that waiting was a decision that you made.

This is NOT a cash game
It is a multi Table Tournament
The blinds increase
The blinds have always increased
There can be only one winner.

They are ultimately a test of an individual's ability to play poker

To some players the thought of actually having to play poker in order to win the money comes as something of a shock.

It is not supposed to be an easy feat to win £11,000 it actually involves mastery of all the elements that make poker the challenging game it is.


Fortune favours the bold!

[Karabiner]

There is no question that one must adapt one's game to the structure.

As long as the structure of any tourney is known beforehand the players know what they must deal with.

It is when structures are changed or "tweaked" with no prior notice that there are grounds for complaint.

Nightfly always makes every effort to publish the structures and stick to them.

After that it is the player's choice as to whether he wants to play or not.

[Nightfly]

It is when structures are changed or "tweaked" with no prior notice that there are grounds for complaint.

Nightfly always makes every effort to publish the structures and stick to them.

After that it is the player's choice as to whether he wants to play or not.

Funny you should mention this...

There will probably be some such 'tweak' to the structure of the forthcoming £100 PLHE on the 6th November.

Nothing too drastic:

Rebuy period will probably be cut from 120 minutes to 100 minutes.

This being to reduce the potential chips in play and hopefully avoid the scenario as described above from last month.

This will of course be communicated to all players on registering as then it will be up to the individuals to decide.

1st sunday in December will have a structure all of its own as it will be a £200 NLHE Rebuy comp (5000 starting chips and 1st level 25/50)

Once all details are finalised they will be posted in the info thread.

[jammer]

Rob, as i'm sure you know, we believe you guys do a sterling job. We've seen a fair few card-room managers throughout the years, and I can guarantee that all have been far more chaotic than your reign - you fellas do top stuff (well benz aside obviously. when is the man gonna shave!?).

If anything the only thing that strikes me is that if there is any way the game's start time could be edged forward... well that would be of benefit to all.

And guys, if you're worried about a game becoming a crap shoot - well news flash, but unless you're playing in a £100+ event, your game IS gonna be a crap shoot. You can pretend all you want that it isn't while you're throwing your buy ins in early on, and mandatory-bluffing late in the day every time everyone passes to you, but it is just a pit-style gamble at the lower levels. Take your edge and run with it, cos a world series type structure isn't gonna be possible on a rainy sunday night on maid marian way.