Why do they do it?

[RED-DOG]

I've been watching Sir David Attenbourough's stunningly beautiful series "The private life of plants"

Using some of the most amazing footage I have ever seen, Sir Dave explained in great detail their extraordinarily complex survival and propagation techniques. Even the lowliest of of fungi or lichen employ mind boggling strategies for self preservation.

It made me wonder, why?

These are non feeling, non thinking, life forms. They can't feel pleasure or pain, disappointment or satisfaction. They have no thought process, no sense of self.

Why is it so important that they survive?

Of course, plants are important to us thinking, feeling life forms. we need them to eat and we need them to breath. Some of us are so entranced by their beauty and diversity that we need them just to look at. But we "higher" life forms were not always here, we are the new kids in town. The plants were here for millions of years before the first thinking, feeling creature arrived, and they used every device imaginable to survive

Why?

[Sark79]

I watched this a few weeks ago.  This is my favorite series made by Attenbourough, I like it even more than the 'Life of Birds' series.  I plan to get through 'Life in the Undergrowth' in the next few weeks.  Youtube have loads of clips of all his series, even though they aren't the full version they are really good. 

Scientific studies have shown that plants may feel pain, maybe it is just instinct.  Seals suckle their mothers without being shown how to and young Mallard know to stay away from adult males because they run the risk of being killed in order for the adult male to limit future competition. 

I think it must be instinct and it can't really be explained.  Every living thing has a self preservation mechanism built in to their brain regardless of their intelligence. Cockroaches and Beetles run away if they feel threatened and they aren't mental giants.

Have you been watching 'Nature of Britain'?  ,  this is the best show on TV right now.   I like 'Autumn Watch', but Bill Oddie gets on my nerves a bit, he is distracting. Simon King, Nick Baker ( the bug man ) and Nigel Marvin are all great nature presenters.   Attenbourough is always the best though.

Yesterday I actually bought a book about Insects, so 'Life in the Undergrowth' will be fun to watch.

[kinboshi]

Why do they go to these ends to survive?  Their genes strive to replicate.  Evolution means that genes in certain organisms have a greater chance of survival than others, and those that adapt best to their environment will survive, replicate and continue as 'successful' species. 
 
Animals went down one route that involves 'rapid' movement, in order to catch or find food, avoid being eaten, etc.  Plants went down another route that doesn't require 'rapid' movement, and many use photosynthesis as described the other day on a thread on here to create the energy they need to survive and replicate their genes.

So the question of why life is why it is on earth - is because it's evolved this way over millions of generations. 

[steeveg]

I've been watching Sir David Attenbourough's stunningly beautiful series "The private life of plants"

Using some of the most amazing footage I have ever seen, Sir Dave explained in great detail their extraordinarily complex survival and propagation techniques. Even the lowliest of of fungi or lichen employ mind boggling strategies for self preservation.

It made me wonder, why?

These are non feeling, non thinking, life forms. They can't feel pleasure or pain, disappointment or satisfaction. They have no thought process, no sense of self.

Why is it so important that they survive?

Of course, plants are important to us thinking, feeling life forms. we need them to eat and we need them to breath. Some of us are so entranced by their beauty and diversity that we need them just to look at. But we "higher" life forms were not always here, we are the new kids in town. The plants were here for millions of years before the first thinking, feeling creature arrived, and they used every device imaginable to survive

Why?

if anyone could ever find an answer to this question they would be close to solving the meaning of life,each question just raises another question,i believe all life forms will only evolve to survive,each living thing uses something as self defence to survive,even plants use chemicals to survive, nicotine is a plants self defence, so is caffine,the greatest self defence is the brain which puts man at the top of the tree,so i think the brain is not about enjoyng life, its only there for one thing,self defence, ,but above all the species must survive ,so for plants to survive they cant have a brain,,they would feel pain,they couldnt run away ,so what good would a brain do them only make them feel pain,this is nowhere near answering your question but who can,i am not saying what i say is a fact just a thought,

p.s These are non feeling, non thinking, life forms. They can't feel pleasure or pain, disappointment or satisfaction. They have no thought process, no sense of self.

sounds like something my ex boss would say about me and my workmates

[AndrewT]

Organisms do not 'try' to evolve. There is no 'meaning' - it's all random.

The reason the mind-boggling lichen are here is because whatever the mind-boggling strategy is, it's good for the lichen's survival. All the lichen that didn't do the mind-boggling thing died out a long time ago.

Same for the seals that somehow just 'know' to suckle from their mother's teat. Any seals born with a propensity to wander away from their mother as soon as they are born quickly die and so do not pass the 'wander away from mother' gene on to the next generation. Most of the next generation will have the 'stay close to mum' gene.

[steeveg]

Organisms do not 'try' to evolve. There is no 'meaning' - it's all random.

The reason the mind-boggling lichen are here is because whatever the mind-boggling strategy is, it's good for the lichen's survival. All the lichen that didn't do the mind-boggling thing died out a long time ago.

Same for the seals that somehow just 'know' to suckle from their mother's teat. Any seals born with a propensity to wander away from their mother as soon as they are born quickly die and so do not pass the 'wander away from mother' gene on to the next generation. Most of the next generation will have the 'stay close to mum' gene.

i agree as i say i think all life forms will only evolve to survive, if they dont evolve to a changing envireoment,they die,, the oraganisim which do survive pass this on to the next part of that organisim chain,  i think red-dogs question is part of a big question, how and why, i  think i understand why, to survive, which brings in evolution, but how they develope the skills and self defence weapons they have is something i have always thought incredible

[RED-DOG]

it's all random.

This is the explanation that I accept and believe to be true. But still, WOW!!

[kinboshi]

Nature is truly amazing.  Evolution has helped to create a wonderful and diverse range of life. 

[Sark79]

I saw a Kingfisher today.  I see them often while out walking, but up until today I had never watched one through my binoculars.  It was pure luck that I actually saw him.  I was adjusting my binoculars while down at the river, I looked through them to fix the setting and by amazing luck I was looking at a Kingfisher .  It is sad that they are declining in numbers , they are great birds

[steeveg]

not sure about random myself, i think evolution is all about being able to survive a new threat, the survivors pass this skill or characteristic on to the next generation, there was a program a few years ago on tv explaining how evolution can happen in a few years,  a few decades ago white butterflies in London where becoming extinct, they realised this was because the air in London had become darker due to all the fumes being pumped into the air, the white butterflies stood out in the dark air and where easy for prey to see, so in a short space of time they where becoming extinct and only dark butterflies where surviving in London, the black butterflies had a defence against a new threat, this was given as a simple example of how evolution can happen very quickly for simple reasons

[RED-DOG]

Yes, that's true.

I didn't quite mean random in that sense. Millions of butterflies will have been born/hatched. Only a very small number, the "freaks" of nature will have carried a gene that gave them darker pigmentation, but in those particular circumstances, they will have been the ones most likely to breed and pass on the mutant gene.

The random part is that from all those millions, a tiny few carry the gene needed to survive this particular set of circumstances. A similar number may have had an extra leg, and if this had been what was required, all butterflies would now have an extra leg.

[Rod Paradise]

The one that amazes me is the de-evolution.

There was a study done on a 'new' island that had appeared in the Pacific (as a result of a volcano). Flies somehow got to the island, and, as there were no predators, de-evolved & lost their wings as they didn't need them any more & the energy in growing them was better utilised in other ways.

That's brilliant.

[kinboshi]

The one that amazes me is the de-evolution.

There was a study done on a 'new' island that had appeared in the Pacific (as a result of a volcano). Flies somehow got to the island, and, as there were no predators, de-evolved & lost their wings as they didn't need them any more & the energy in growing them was better utilised in other ways.

That's brilliant.

It's not always so brilliant for the species involved though.  Island gigantism is often what happens, and you end up with species like the Dodo who live in an evolutionary vaccum.  When something/someone comes along to destabilise the artificial equilibrium the species can then struggle to survive.  As with the Dodo.

[Rod Paradise]

The one that amazes me is the de-evolution.

There was a study done on a 'new' island that had appeared in the Pacific (as a result of a volcano). Flies somehow got to the island, and, as there were no predators, de-evolved & lost their wings as they didn't need them any more & the energy in growing them was better utilised in other ways.

That's brilliant.

It's not always so brilliant for the species involved though.  Island gigantism is often what happens, and you end up with species like the Dodo who live in an evolutionary vaccum.  When something/someone comes along to destabilise the artificial equilibrium the species can then struggle to survive.  As with the Dodo.

I know that, but I still think the 'loss' of useless features is quite interesting.

Personally I've always though de-evolution explained the English ;-)

[RED-DOG]

There are bits of tikay that are liable to de evolve at any moment.