Delicately dissing dtd

[Colchester Kev]

No it never crossed my mind that you were attacking DTD, and even if i did, its not my job to defend them anyway... im sure they can do that themselves.

I suppose what i mean in laymans terms is this ...

if you like the structure, play the event.

if you dont like the structure dont play the event.

we live in a country where you can get a game of poker either live or online almost anytime of the day or night, 365 days a year .... play what suits you and ignore what doesnt.

BUT the biggest mistake is to assume that every poker player thinks the same as you, for everyone who wants longer levels and every level jump included, there is another who detests that particular structure .. surely we should all just go with what suits us personally and vote with our feet ??

[ifm]

I think the members of DTD should be polled about it, if they think it's good and fair then it should be put to Simon Trumper as an option to consider.
Majority rule.

[tikay]

I agree Tom that we put up our money so we should get a decent structure as a reward for our outlay

Dont you think though that too many comps these days try to overcompensate and give to many chips with too many levels and too long a clock

comps were originally designed to get people to turn up, get knocked out and let the venue generate money from the cash games.

None of us want crapshoots but nutfests isnt the way to go either

surely too much of something can be as bad as too little

It's a "balance thing" Jim.

I happen to be one of those that continually lobby for better structures, but "better" is subjective. And DTD have shown that they listen to what poker players want, & try to oblige. They have already dmonstrated that, by agreeeing to add Super Stud & such like to Dealers Choice - not originally intended - but now proven to be hugely popular there, & very rake-generative.

I actually think Tom's thread title may have given the wromg impression - he's not "dissing" them at all, he's larging them up in truth. And walking the walk, by spending most nights there, playing Cash, & generating rake to help run the place.

As to his suggestion, well, I think - in fact, I KNOW - that DTD monitor blonde daily, & closely, to seek feedback, & I think Simon Trumper will answer eloquently & patiently as to why he prefers "as is", & will remain, as he was when we chatted about this very thing last night, open to suggestions as to what suits most best. It's what a Poker Forum does best, chews the cud, acts as a sounding board for ideas - and as long as it's civil, that's fine & dandy.

Personally, I've always been puzzled by the notion that if the Big Boys in the Main Event get, say, 10k in chips, it would devalue that Event if the lower buy-in Tourneys were given an equally attractive structure. APAT gave that structure at the lower buy-in level, & we can't find Venues big enough for them, that's how popular they are, but it''s not, in my opinion, devalued "bigger" Events that have the same structure.

I must reiterate Red's summing up of Mother Hen. To watch him running that Cardroom is a thing of beauty - it's as if he were born to do it, his whole approach is exemplary, but particularly his people skills. Awesome. We had a most fascinating chat about drain-cleaning last night - he knows his stuff does him. He shall be Lord Hen soon.

But back to the £500. Yes, I'd prefer it a tad slower, & yes, I accept Simon's reasons why he wants to start it off as is. With our opinions, & their ears, the best balanced solution will emerge in time, & soon enough. THATS the great thing about DTD - they listen. And the Egg Benedict is a bit OK, too.

[boldie]

I played the £500 last week at s'end

i believe it was 10k in chips with levels

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400

as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips

i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day  (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final )

This £500 comp at dtd is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event

I'm playing the GSNPC in march (little brag) and that has the above + a 150 +3-- witha  25 ante level added to the above...I can't wait! It's beautifull..gorgeous and I'm sure (if I can actually keep my focus for  the first and second day and not mess up completely because I get bored or tired) that it will be a pleasure. ..Wouldn't want to play one every week though

[RED-DOG]

No it never crossed my mind that you were attacking dtd, and even if i did, its not my job to defend them anyway... im sure they can do that themselves.

I suppose what i mean in laymans terms is this ...

if you like the structure, play the event.

if you dont like the structure dont play the event.

we live in a country where you can get a game of poker either live or online almost anytime of the day or night, 365 days a year .... play what suits you and ignore what doesnt.

BUT the biggest mistake is to assume that every poker player thinks the same as you, for everyone who wants longer levels and every level jump included, there is another who detests that particular structure .. surely we should all just go with what suits us personally and vote with our feet ??

Well for a start, that's nothing nothing like what you said in your first post, which implies that I just want to undermine someones efforts for the sake of it.

I did NOT assume every player wants the same thing, I quote

I have to say that this is an argument that I have heard before, from both cardroom managers and PLAYERS alike) But I disagree, I think you should give the players the best structure possible regardless.

[celtic]

I played the £500 last week at s'end

i believe it was 10k in chips with levels

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400

as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips

i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day   (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final )

This £500 comp at dtd is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event

 Bit harsh & it started at 1am.

[tikay]

I think the members of dtd should be polled about it, if they think it's good and fair then it should be put to Simon Trumper as an option to consider.
Majority rule.

Well, the truth is, it's Rob Yong's rule - it's his money, & he can do what he wants.

The one thing they will NOT do, ever - & I know, because I've chatted to Rob, & Nick, & Simon about this, is anything which devalues the DTD Brand. It's a Premium Brand - like Rolex, like Ferrari, like Gucci, like Chanel, and as such, they need, & will, maintain the highest standards. They don't need to go downmarket, or offer "incentives", that devalue the Brand. And the DTD experience.

Im quite sure they'll do what's best, just give them time to settle, & they'll tweak things as they go. But they need feedback, & that's what this thread is doing.

[ifm]

I think the members of dtd should be polled about it, if they think it's good and fair then it should be put to Simon Trumper as an option to consider.
Majority rule.

Well, the truth is, it's Rob Yong's rule - it's his money, & he can do what he wants.

The one thing they will NOT do, ever - & I know, because I've chatted to Rob, & Nick, & Simon about this, is anything which devalues the dtd Brand. It's a Premium Brand - like Rolex, like Ferrari, like Gucci, like Chanel, and as such, they need, & will, maintain the highest standards. They don't need to go downmarket, or offer "incentives", that devalue the Brand. And the dtd experience.

Im quite sure they'll do what's best, just give them time to settle, & they'll tweak things as they go. But they need feedback, & that's what this thread is doing.

HUH
I think you may have contradicted yourself a few times.

[M3boy]

Why not structure a comp differently?

Have say 7500 starting chips and make the levels longer, the deeper into the tournament you get. Maybe include some other levels later on (say 1200 2400 for example)

This then removes the stagnent first few levels where you cannot really pressure people in a 10,000 chip comp when the blinds are so small. BUT would allow for play at the business end?

I have no idea if this would work but its just an idea?

[RED-DOG]

I played the £500 last week at s'end

i believe it was 10k in chips with levels

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400

as i say im not looking for crap shoots but i also want to be able to put people under pressure for there chips

i think luton has gone too far with there comps the final started at 4.50am on boxing day  (im at the point where i have stopped playing them as too many people are passing there way to the final )

This £500 comp at dtd is a special one off event so for me i think it should have as good a strucutre as any because it is a headlining event

So it's ok to pass your way to the final in an EPT or some other headlining event Jim? 

[George2Loose]

APAT has a better structure. Clock should be an hour IMHO

[Rookie (Rodney)]

I am a fish

[DTD-ACES]

Hi Guys

As TK said i read all DTD threads and his diary to get feedback/ideas to improve the service/experience of playing at Dusk Till Dawn.

I spoke to Tom and told him the current structure for the monthly £500 was set at 40 minutes and 7500 chips and uses our normal weekly tournament structure with a couple of changes, i have added a 150 300 25 level and the 200 400 has a 50 ante instead of 25, i also said if i gave a longer clock and full festival structure ( i will probably put back one or two levels i removed as originally it was way too slow for one day events the first week ending in chip counts every night at 6am ! ) what would i have to improve the festival events.

Every Thursday our £50 event has been sold out, originally capped at 108 and getting 119 to 137 it is now capped at 135 pre seat draw and 9 alternates . 144 is the natural cap using our structure with 30 minute levels, Thursdays event was split on a 3 way chip count at 4.20am but could have played out over the next 3 levels. Tonight there were 89 players for the £100 which has 5000 starting chips instead of 4000 , this makes a big difference to early play as with 445,000 chips compared to Thursdays 576,000 it finished at 5.10am with no deals, this means i may have to drop the chips if the fields keep increasing but i know i could get up to 144 with 4000 so will try 4500 first but not until i see how the next one with 5000 chips does.

As i have no idea how many players will turn up for our £500 i want to give a decent structure with a longer clock and more chips than our weekly events then monitor the result and feedback as this will help me determine the best structure/clock/chips for our first festival . I agree with Tom and TK that the Dusk Till Dawn experience should not be diluted and wherever i can i will improve it. Therefore once i see how this weekend goes next month i will consider a one hour clock and 7500 or 45 minutes with 10,000 starting chips.

Playing here is so unique compared to any other venue in the UK there is no reason why our monthly event can't be a sample of what you can expect at DTD festivals.

I respect Toms decision to skip this months event but i hope he will come and play in the side games.

As kev says it's not possible to please everyone but for those interested here are the first 10 levels tonight , 7500 chips and a 40 minute clock.

25 50
50 100
75 150
100 200
150 300
150 300 25
200 400 50
300 600 50
400 800 100
600 1200 100

I certainly dont think Tom is " dissing " DTD as i know he loves playing here as does TK and without constructive criticism i would be unable to perfect the Dusk Till Dawn experience so thanks to all of you that are willing to share your opinions.

I am trying to achieve our goal of making Dusk Till Dawn the premier venue in Europe, i have a fantastic team providing the best poker experience in an amazing venue, there is much more to come as we work towards opening 7 days a week and hosting our first festival and i welcome any suggestions both here or in person at the club.

Cheers

ACES

[Mango99]

There's far too many deep stack structures imo. I'd much rather play a quicker structured game than sit around for 3 days then bubble. The dtd £500 looks like a good compromise, and if I didn't live so far away and wasn't so perpetually busy, it's one I'd definitely play. Hope to make it up in the next few months. Keep up the good work

[RED-DOG]

Thank you Simon.

Of course I wasn't really dissing dtd, you know how much I love playing there.

I posted my opinion because I knew that you would take it in the spirit it was intended.

Contrary to to Kev's (imho) rather insulting post, I'm not "Moaning and Groaning" and I don't "just want to change the original plans of someone else's efforts."

Kev also seems to suggests (in laymans terms) I hasten to add. (although "Knobbed off" and "Tossing themselves off" don't apparently qualify as laymens terms) That rather than voice opinions, we should just "Vote with our feet". Well we could do that, but then poker forums would be pretty redundant.


BTW Simon, I haven't said that I won't play this weekend, (It's still a pretty good structure) but if I don't, I will still be coming down for a little cash action.