Hand Advice please

[redsimon]

correct Winkie and Simon has the hand

Of course he hits a 9 on the river to hit a boat

That's immaterial really, but I think there are a variety of ways to play this post flop

Is the instant call of my all in with trip 7's automatic?

Well I hate having a middle set on this sort of flop. If I do call I know I'm behind (if that makes sense!). Probably play too much Omaha and take the scary boards from that game over to HE (Then again I put all my stack in with the idiot straight in my previous post!)  

[ifm]

one of those hands that you are destined to lose all your chips in........UNLESS the diamond comes on the turn.
He is obviously scared of the flush too!!
If you can put him on the set a call here and a push on a diamond turn may get a good player to fold but that apart you can't win.

BTW i had exactly the same situation in the £300 at walsall a couple of months back, except i flopped the nut flush to a set, i pushed, the board paired on the river...........you just cannot avoid losing here.....unlucky.

[TightEnd]

The problem with the cal lon the flop here Ian is I think contained in my original post

there's too many hands you can put him on

flush draw, set, straight, straight draw,top pair

so call the flop bet and raise the turn and you feel like you are giving him a free card to beat you

if you can put him on the set then call and push on a diamond turn


but overall it's a tough spot all round

[ifm]

that's what i say, i'd have pushed too. I was just trying to see if there was any way to win this hand, i don't think it's possible.

[The Baron]

I think it has to be all in. If he has top pair/two pair/trips then you want a caller and the turn may bring a scare card where you wont get paid or it might make his hand if he's drawing. Either way, dump it in when you are ahead.

If you get outdrawn after flopping a straight and sticking it all in then there really was no doubt you were just destined to lose that hand.

[jezza777]

There is just no getting away from some flops huh?

[Royal Flush]

I find nearly everything in this thread wrong, from the idea that we want a set to fold, to the reasoning that he has to have a set/2pr/fd

Let's assume instead that someone has just a 9, he is not going to put much more in after you check raise!!


My personal play here would be to lead out on the flop, in a 5 way pot anyone with a 9 is duty bound to put in a raise to protect against the flush draw, at this point you will get to put a 3rd bet in on the flop!!

[TightEnd]

I suggested leading out on the flop in my iniitial post, and now someone suggests it aT LAST!!

sure, I still lose the hand, and the money all goes in way before the river anyway...but it's a different way to get there!!


ta RF

[The Baron]

I find nearly everything in this thread wrong, from the idea that we want a set to fold, to the reasoning that he has to have a set/2pr/fd

Let's assume instead that someone has just a 9, he is not going to put much more in after you check raise!!


My personal play here would be to lead out on the flop, in a 5 way pot anyone with a 9 is duty bound to put in a raise to protect against the flush draw, at this point you will get to put a 3rd bet in on the flop!!

What is someone with just a 9 protecting against? If you've led out surely he knows you wont be on a flush draw versus 5 people and therefore theres a good chance that just a 9 is losing?

Unless a 9 has a good kicker I think you will lose a customer by betting out here.

[Royal Flush]

I don't know many players on the net that call pre flop with a 9 in there hand then fold on that flop....

I make a 1/2 pot lead and hope 1 of them raises, sure i still lose against the set but i maxamise my edge over the hands that are drawing near dead to me, which is what i want to do when i flop a str8.

It pains me when people move in to protect against a flush/str8 draw when they know that person was going to call anyway, all you do is scare of the hands that you want to play against, i.e 1 pair vs a str8!!

[TightEnd]

but Flushy it's delicate balance isn't it, you lead out and they all fold for instance...then you are feeling you've lost a chance to accumulate chips

hence I suppose most check raise here

I expect the trick is to make your lead look as weak as possible.....

[Royal Flush]

If they all fold when you lead you were never picking up anything anyway....

Early in a multi i am not intreastead in picking up 6 BB's in a pot...i want to win big pots with as little risk as possible.

OK if we check and all of them have missed the flop, the button maybe has a crack at a bluff into 4 others, you check raise he folds, you call he checks the turn, you bet the river he fodls, you check he might try another small bet.

The other point of leading out here is that if you always lead out, with the str8, with the flush draw with a set with just the 9, you become unreadable. I have built a game online around just this principle, if i am going to play a hand i always play the same way so no-one can ever know what i have!!!

[The Baron]

It is an interesting case, and I for one am enjoying reading the responses here. 

I wouldn't lead out for a few reasons:

I dont want to scare away the one pair players (I want at least one bet from them)

If I bet I cannot see one pair reraising me with 3 other players in the pot (even an internet player with a 9! lol)

If I check and a hypothetical mr one pair does raise then the set may well reraise creating a decent pot for me, the guy sat sneakily with a straight

I do think winning the biggest pot possible is a good idea. However I wouldn't want my 1/2 pot raise to be flat called cheaply by a flush draw. If it hits I may go on to lose my stack instead of picking it up there and then with my check raise. Even 6BB's is preferable to that.

[Royal Flush]

I don't think someone with a 9 folds on the flop for 1/2 pot bet. That is the kind of flop multiway someone has a part of, be it the flush draw a pair or open str8 draw, i can't see you not getting action if you lead.

[The Baron]

I don't think someone with a 9 folds on the flop for 1/2 pot bet. That is the kind of flop multiway someone has a part of, be it the flush draw a pair or open str8 draw, i can't see you not getting action if you lead.

Again this is hypothetical, but if you lead out and a set is sat directly behind you and he raises then you lose the top pair customer. By checking you may get bets from both.

If you lead out and top pair is sat behind you but 3 players are after him as well he may not fancy it. However if you check he may be inclined to put out a feeler to see what the next 3 do. Either way I think top pair is more inclined to be involved if you check to the action makers.

Great posts by the way!