Beginning of the end for Rafa...

[TheChipPrince]

Breaking news on BBC sport, they held 'secret talks' with Jurgen Klinsmann before he accepted the Munich job last week... Undermining him, he'll be off soon...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7187086.stm

[Jim-D]

Shocking behaviour from the board, Also heard on talksport that they might be selling the club again?!

[TightEnd]

Shocking behaviour from the board, Also heard on talksport that they might be selling the club again?!

the US credit crunch does not help these cross border financing of uneconomic play-things

[jizzemm]

Shocking is not the word.... They need to shoot these muppets, and maybe Raffa 2, it has never been the Liverpool way like this in the public through the red tops and with SSN and all the other news channells desperate for information the whole sorry saga can only end 1 way, that will be Raffa going and some clown coming in, and maybe the americans selling...

Raffa may have lost it, may not,  I dont know any more, but 1 thing for sure the constant Raffa is going rubbish has been going since the start of the season, and i'm sure its not helping the situation.

I fear a clean break is required, maybe the only way we will be left alone, im sure we will sell our soul and get the oh so special one (who the hell else is there better), as much as I really want to see Liverpool win the league and i will be over the moon if we did, it will be a hollow title if he won it for us..

Lets batter Luton tommorow night, and see what happens from there. I'm sure Raffas job will be on the line if he does not win (Red Top Exclusive tommorow im sure).

[TightEnd]

Alan Hansen's view

Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks's admission that he spoke to Jurgen Klinsmann about becoming the team manager is an amazing story.

I haven't got a clue why he has come out and said this; maybe the story was going to come out and he thought he'd be better off making a statement first.

Whichever way you look at it though, these events cannot do anything but undermine manager Rafael Benitez.

His position is not untenable, but for one of the owners to come out and publicly say he had talks with the man who was heavily linked with Benitez's job - well, it puts even more pressure on the Spaniard.

Benitez is saying nothing, which I think is the most sensible thing to do. But if there is tension between him and the owners, this is only going to heighten it.

I think that is the biggest thing for me. If it adds to that tension then that will eventually start to affect the team on the pitch, that's an absolute certainty.

Players aren't really interested in new stadiums and things like that, it doesn't affect them. But when something affects the manager who is picking the team and influencing their careers, you can bet it will start to have an impact on them.

Liverpool are obviously struggling at the minute.

They have had four draws on the trot, they are 12 points adrift of Manchester United and Arsenal in the Premier League, and I think this is the last thing they need.

It has definitely come at a bad time. There's never a great time for stories like this to come out, but it's far better if you are flying. They are off the pace and it will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

Insurance policy or whatever Hicks wants to call it - and we have to take him at his word because he is apparently a man of great integrity - the fact is he met Klinsmann and offered him the job if Benitez went, which is remarkable.

I think that in the Premier League, every manager apart from Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger are two games away from the sack, so things might not have changed much from that point of view.

[kinboshi]

I'll post on this in a bit.  A lot of what the media has written and said on this (for example Hansen) doesn't quite fit in with what was actually said or the chronological order of events.

However, in saying that I can't stand Hicks.  His involvement with the club is not a good thing as far as I'm concerned. 

[Pelham Boy]

Surely the beginning of the end was when he signed Voronin.

                                         

[kinboshi]

Surely the beginning of the end was when he signed Voronin.

                                         

He didn't cost anything, so hardly the worst crime against football.  Playing him ahead of Crouch is though.  Then there's Kuyt, who cost about £9M.

[Pelham Boy]

Surely the beginning of the end was when he signed Voronin.

                                         

He didn't cost anything, so hardly the worst crime against football.  Playing him ahead of Crouch is though.  Then there's Kuyt, who cost about £9M.

Fair enough. I didn't realise he was a free.

[kinboshi]

Surely the beginning of the end was when he signed Voronin.

                                         

He didn't cost anything, so hardly the worst crime against football.  Playing him ahead of Crouch is though.  Then there's Kuyt, who cost about £9M.

Fair enough. I didn't realise he was a free.

No one would pay anything for him!!! 

[The Baron]

I have had misgivings about our owners for a little while now but today is the first time in my life I've ever been embarrased by events at Liverpool FC and I can only blame the owners. This is not the Liverpool way.

To date they've gone back on a promise not to borrow money against the club.

Had the new stadium redesigned because of extra costs.

Claimed to have invested heavily in the playing squad. We spent £37 million in the summer and recouped £19 million. So our net spend was £18 million. (Fulham, Spurs and Newcastle spent more - Man U spent that on 2 individual players this summer, Hargreaves and Anderson) Not much considering even the bottom placed premiership team gets £30 million this season. So they havent spent that much really.

The there's "being able to compete in the transfer market". We're meant to be able to compete with the other big clubs in the transfer market since they arrived to save us. Our highest ever fee for a defender is £6.5 million - quite a bit short of Chelsea's £22 mil for a defender and Man U's £30 mil. Even Spurs have spent 10 million on Bale and 8.2 on Dean Richards a while back - Newcastle spent 8 on Boumsong etc etc

We were also denied access to sign Kakhaber Kaladze on a free from Milan (possibly because they thought Klinsman was coming?) a player who's won 2 European Cups.

Then there also today's other revelation.

Courtesy of the Echo:

"The ECHO understands that despite missing out on buying the club in its entirety when David Moores opted to sell his shares to Hicks and Gillett, DIC maintained an interest in Liverpool which resurfaced in October.

And when Hicks and Gillett attended the home game against Arsenal on the 28th of that month an intermediary brought the two parties together.

On the table was a minority shareholding. Initially, DIC wanted a 20% stake but Hicks and Gillett were willing to offer them no more than 10%. But a compromise of 15% was eventually reached and at that stage it looked likely that DIC would finally be able to invest in Liverpool FC.

That was until they learned that Hicks and Gillett had valued the club at £1bn, a figure which meant they would have to pay £150m if they wanted to purchase the proposed 15% stake. There was also a proviso that any such deal could only be concluded if DIC agreed to forego any voting rights.

At that point, DIC pulled out of the talks insistent that the club had been overvalued, particularly as Hicks and Gillett had purchased it for just £218.9m (including £44.8m of debt) just 10 months earlier.

The new £1bn valuation was based on what Hicks and Gillett estimated the club would be worth once the new Anfield stadium was built – a valuation which DIC felt was over the top.

The ECHO understands that if Liverpool FC was put up for sale DIC would again be willing to make an offer.

But, contrary to newspaper reports yesterday, no official offers for the club have been made and no meetings are planned between Hicks and Gillett and DIC."

I really dont like or trust our owners.

Now they admit treating Rafa like a mug only to line up Jurgen "no CV" Klinsman who was nearly sacked by the German FA 2 months prior to the world cup Germany ended up doing ok in! Rafa was right when he said they know nothing of "soccer".

I really hope they go and sooner rather than later.

[Rooky9]

Was it also not the Liverpool way when there was all that stuff with Gerrard going (2 or 3 years ago) and the cheif exec (Parry?) calling him out on SSN?!!

Like Baron pointed out I don't see how they could really ask for anymore from Rafa.

He obviously knows that they can't win the league so concentrates on CL whilst trying to ensure they qualify for the CL again the following season. His problem should only come if it all blows up in his face and is left with no CL place, no run in the competition and doesn't pick any of the domestic stuff up...

[The Baron]

By the way I'm sure Rafa knew he was close to going.

When we went 2-1 down to Reading (before the Marseille game) he took Gerrard off and got loads of stick for it as we lost 3-1. However, we beat Marseille 4-0 and Hicks today said that he would have went had we not qualified. I have no doubt Rafa knows how close he was to going.

Shocking that a guy who's made 2 European Cup finals in 3 years could go because of one bad season in Europe - my bet is Liverpool are not as financially sound as people think and we needed the money. (There is a Feb 1st deadline for the RBOS bankloan)

I can see Rafa going in the summer either way. The yanks dont like him. The fans will hate it though.

[The Baron]

Was it also not the Liverpool way when there was all that stuff with Gerrard going (2 or 3 years ago) and the cheif exec (Parry?) calling him out on SSN?!!

Correct Rooky. Parry is behind a lot of what is wrong with Liverpool at the moment. Dont even get me started on him or I'll be posting for hours!

[Rooky9]

I can see Rafa going in the summer either way. The yanks dont like him. The fans will hate it though.

So he is supported then? On the rare occations I have the radio on, or when SSn have random text read outs, Liverpool fans seem to give him constant stick over his squad rotation. I think there was one on about not thinking he can take them any further! Surely just doing what he has already done again would be good enough.  Having said that I'm pretty aware of how the sporting media can put whatever perspective on things they want!!