QQ Pre-Flop Can You Pass?

[GlasgowBandit]

£50 freezeout, 8k starting stack 49 players starting we are currently down to 4 tables and we have a monster stack of 29k after having nut flush paid off in two spots, stealing a few pots with position and turning a straight flush.  All in all it was going well. 

We pick up QQ UTG + 2, blinds are 100/200 we make it a standard 3 x BB.  raised in MP - player in question appears tight but can be donkeyish at times.  He is one of those players who either has it or he's going to do his bollocks making you believe he has it.  He has about 16k and is 2nd CL at table.  Button pushes all in for 3.2k total.  Tricky player who bets only with premium hands but appears to be tilting after donking off around 9k with a Tikay style mis read.  so back to me. 

I am concerned about the original re-raise, player in question has been very innactive recently taking down a decent post and shooting from 5kish to 16k after having the NF paid off. 

My process is that he has re-raised with AA, KK, QQ (??) JJ or AKs, QQ very unlikely.  I can't see him reraising me with a pair > TT, although there have been a few comments made and your sure he wants to be in a pot with you, simply to try and outplay you.  Now thinking about the button push for not a lot I start to narrow the hand selection down for original re-raiser.  I am more inclined to believe he has the goods.   But QQ is obviously a massive hand, how do you play this?

Can I seriously pass it? Should I want to pass it giving my chip stack and the potential of getting an opponent all-in and taking two playre out and adding significant chips to my stack?

Thoughs please?

[Ironside]

if your read is "My process is that he has re-raised with AA, KK, QQ (??) JJ or AKs, QQ very unlikely.  I can't see him reraising me with a pair > TT"

then its an easy fold

if "although there have been a few comments made and your sure he wants to be in a pot with you, simply to try and outplay you" then why reraise preflop surely he would want to outplay you on a board


QQ is a hand too many people say "its queens you cant passs queens"

you can pass queens too often i have commited chips with queens when i have known the oppo has AA KK or AK

[Pyso]

A tricky one with QQ, I agree. Been here a few times myself. It's funny how folding JJ pre-flop is ten times easier than folding QQ!!!

I think this one is as much about the players - did you get any reads on them?

[Pyso]

By reads, I mean physical tells at the table

[Newportlad]

I'm all in here.

If he has KK or AA then good luck to him.

If he calls and your lose the hand, then you still have about 13K, which is plenty to work with. 
If he calls and you win, you then have enough to coast to the final table.

[ChipRich]

I'm probably flat calling the guys all in, and if the raiser from MP with 16k moves in over the top of that, im folding as im prob beat.

You have then found out for 3k and u still have 25-26k.

[GlasgowBandit]

I'm probably flat calling the guys all in, and if the raiser from MP with 16k moves in over the top of that, im folding as im prob beat.

You have then found out for 3k and u still have 25-26k.

Wish this was the line I had taken. I slightly pushed my cards over the line before snapping them back and moving in.  Insta call from original re-raiser.  He had AA.

Boooooooo!!!

The all in man turned over AQ - bigger boo. It was a raggy flop also. 

[M3boy]

What did MP re raise to?

This is an important detail for me. As if he has re raised to anything between 1901 and 3200 then it is a flat call as the re raiser CANNOT re raise you and you will see the flop and assess from there.

[GlasgowBandit]

What did MP re raise to?

This is an important detail for me. As if he has re raised to anything between 1901 and 3200 then it is a flat call as the re raiser CANNOT re raise you and you will see the flop and assess from there.

He raised to 1600.

[M3boy]

TY

tricky situation against that type of player.

I probably move all in

[Ironside]

guys GB has said that his read on teh oppo was that he wouldnt make the raise with less than "AA, KK, QQ (??) JJ or AKs, QQ very unlikely.  I can't see him reraising me with a pair > TT"

so basically your hoping he has JJ

now i can rarely put a player on that narrow a range but if i had narrowed the range down too those few hands how can you get your chips in the middle

he has him on 5 hands (one unlikey)
2 have you as a huge dog
1 your a big favourite
1 is a coin flip
and the other is unlikey the same hand

so getting all in against such a narrow range is -EV

putting someone on that narrow range is hard but once you have done it then its a must fold

personally i would have put a guy on such a narrow range and would of more  than likey got all my chips in the middle

[GlasgowBandit]

The one part of my game that has been spot on recently is my reads on other players and my ability to put them on a hand.  The one part where I am lacking just now is getting a bit of luck in a race.  I sooooooo wanted to pass the QQ, but I had things going through my mind like what if I have this wrong what is he's not got AA or KK what if we're in a race with AK - then I was thinking about the button if he has any sort of A thats one less out for original re-raiser. 

Even although I had my oppo on a very tight range which worked out to be spot on, I couldn't pass.  Thats obviously a leak in my game, its an easy pass if I am holding something like like AT, AJ, AQ, I think i even pass AK here.  Perhaps I try and see a flop with AK and pass if I miss.  But I guess i took the line that ih he had AA or KK then good luck to him.

[Ironside]

no point in making great reads if you dont trust the result and act on it

as i said hard to laydown queens but if you are reading him for AA KK QQ JJ or AK then its a stupid move

even if he has AK do you really want to be racing when you are in such a comanding postion against a player that can bring you back to average

take on the small stacks in the races and take on the big stacks when you have AA or KK and read them for QQ or AK

[Longy]

no point in making great reads if you dont trust the result and act on it

as i said hard to laydown queens but if you are reading him for AA KK QQ JJ or AK then its a stupid move

even if he has AK do you really want to be racing when you are in such a comanding postion against a player that can bring you back to average

take on the small stacks in the races and take on the big stacks when you have AA or KK and read them for QQ or AK

QQ against the quoted range is a coin flip mainly due to the fact that there are so many more combinations of ak then the pairs.




---
 359,583,840  games     0.031 secs    11,599,478,709  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    47.366%     45.79%    01.58%         164644764      5675268.00   { QQ }
Hand 1:    52.634%     51.06%    01.58%         183588540      5675268.00   { JJ+, AKs, AKo }


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[M3boy]

no point in making great reads if you dont trust the result and act on it

as i said hard to laydown queens but if you are reading him for AA KK QQ JJ or AK then its a stupid move

even if he has AK do you really want to be racing when you are in such a comanding postion against a player that can bring you back to average

take on the small stacks in the races and take on the big stacks when you have AA or KK and read them for QQ or AK

I disagree. This pot could give us HUGE chip lead - taking out 2nd CL

EVEN if we loose, we are only down to 12k - plenty of chips

I fail to see how you can get this strong a read of the information given in the post. My read on the info given is that it is 50:50 he has a hand or not. Given that info and stack sizes, I'm taking my chances here all the time against this player. The ONE thing i am not doing is to flat call and put myself in a position of "weather to call or not" if he moves over the top.

I am trying to avoid difficult situations so I cannot "second guess" myself.

But what I will say is that if I was in this situation, I would have ALOT more info than given in the OP (and I am sure the origional poster also had alot more info).