Investment opportunity

[neeko]

Story from todays Sunday Times:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/leisure/article3293979.ece

In short Devilfish poker (of which DH only owns 27%) wants to raise £1m from the stockmarket and value the whole co at £3.2m. 

It only has 700 real money players!!

[Longy]

I know little about what companys are worth, how much they will float for etc. How can the company be worth 3.2million when it has 700 real money players?

[TightEnd]

I know little about what companys are worth, how much they will float for etc. How can the company be worth 3.2million when it has 700 real money players?

the valuation looks daft to me but, with some experience of such matters....you can value companies in a number of ways..

typically for an established company you might sell for say 10 times your annual earnings ( a random examply)

or maybe for 1.5x turnover

for a new company with no earnings and little turnover you are buying?

well no assets as such

no earnings as such

you are buying, nebulously, potential but also "eyeballs" or the database

So, simply if 700 real players are worth £3.2m then each player is valued at £4,500 each (this may or may not be economic but in the short term the real worth of each player has to be far less than this)

but if you add the players on the database (as per article) then your "cost per player" reduces dramatically if you can convert dormant players to active


As I say, not defending the price,just saying how the calculations are thought about "strategically"

[Grier78]

I think Devilfish poker has missed the boat, the chances of it getting any substantial growth in the near future has to be quite slim. All the poker sites that are expiriencing growth have good USP's or a heck of a lot of advertising money.

I also think that Devilfish's popularity and reknown peaked a while ago.

[AndrewT]

I think Devilfish poker has missed the boat

Devilfish poker is standing on the docks at Southampton whilst the boat is arriving at New York.

6,000 registered players? For a site which has been going a couple of years?

Devilfish had a better chance of making money when he was safe-breaking.

[Gryff]

Pretty awful really, maybe they think the newspaper pieces that cover it will generate new players?

If he produced a few of his own late night poker shows and sold them properly and tacked his site marketing all over it I think it would be worth a lot more

[Nick Peters]

No i've sussed it.

He want to raise a milion to lump on DEVILFISHPOKER.com next time it runs at Catterick.

http://www.racingpost.co.uk/horses/racing_horse_form.sd?horse_id=657233

Happy punting.

[AlexMartin]

I think Devilfish poker has missed the boat

Devilfish poker is standing on the docks at Southampton whilst the boat is arriving at New York.

6,000 registered players? For a site which has been going a couple of years?

Devilfish had a better chance of making money when he was safe-breaking.

yip.

[quantify]

generallly the price indicators for poker sites are twice the rake produced (nett) when you get businesses such as internet poker sites they carry a net worth un matched by normal PE  ratios (which  tightend refers to..._).it is still a very immature market as far as valuations go........we have looked at a number of sales in the past 12 months and it is almost impossible to quantify a nett worth.......
the sites are only worth the value that an investor is prepared to pay, ie what is their specific need , if it is purely market entry it has a weaker value , if it is for a bolt on ,to , lets say a sports book or another poker site on the same network they would carry a higher value

the comments about missing the boat are not neccesarily correct ,the market is governed by the players migrating from site to site, but raising capital to reinvest ina bigger and better company   has many different guises.

whatthe dp. guys are trying to achieve is one way of doing it, being critical of anything dh does generally bites people in the arse, comments like he is washed up then he wins player of the year and spanks the yanks in their own back yard......... love him or loathe him he always seems to get there and it will be interesting to follo this growth project ,,,,,,,,,,, cos that is what it will be

[byronkincaid]

is it still a UB skin?

[Dingdell]

Claw and I will be sharing a vimto or two with him on Saturday night courtesy of Blonde so we will of course quiz him about this. Doubt if he'll speak to us though - as we are women who play poker - sort of goes against the grain for him. 

[tikay]

I believe Paul Barnes is involved with the proposed listing & float. Paul Barnes was the brains behind "All-In-Poker" if I'm not mistaken. When challenged that it was effectively a pyramid scheme, he replied, "no, think of it as a two-dimensional triangle". Lateral dancing at it's very best.

Mr Ulliott, of course, is a very exceptional poker player indeed, as his record testifies. I have no real knowledge of his business acumen, except what I've seen in the domain, including "Swimming with the Devilfish".

I wish all involved every success.

[kinboshi]

Has anyone ever brought up that the name 'Devilfish' is actually incorrect.  The fish I guess he was meant to be named after is actually the puffer fish or blow fish, called fugu in Japanese.

A devil fish is a genus of ray that is part of the family of eagle rays.

Just wondered if this had been mentioned on here before or not?

[tikay]

Has anyone ever brought up that the name 'Devilfish' is actually incorrect.  The fish I guess he was meant to be named after is actually the puffer fish or blow fish, called fugu in Japanese.

A devil fish is a genus of ray that is part of the family of eagle rays.

Just wondered if this had been mentioned on here before or not?

The story of how he became known as Devilfish is well documented. An Oriental Gentleman, who plays at Walsall & The Broadway, & tells everyone he's invented many poker-based games, claims to have first coined it, & subsequently, some litigation ensued, as he claimed he had rights over the name. He does do spiffing chip tricks though.

[kinboshi]

Has anyone ever brought up that the name 'Devilfish' is actually incorrect.  The fish I guess he was meant to be named after is actually the puffer fish or blow fish, called fugu in Japanese.

A devil fish is a genus of ray that is part of the family of eagle rays.

Just wondered if this had been mentioned on here before or not?

The story of how he became known as Devilfish is well documented. An Oriental Gentleman, who plays at Walsall & The Broadway, & tells everyone he's invented many poker-based games, claims to have first coined it, & subsequently, some litigation ensued, as he claimed he had rights over the name. He does do spiffing chip tricks though.

Yes, I know all that. But the Oriental gentleman got the wrong name for the fish.  It's a puffer fish or blow fish he was referring to, not a devil fish.