best route for rangers celtic in europe

[Rod Paradise]

but if the other teams only played the Old Firm twice a season, some of them could pick up enough points to compete for the title.  Teams get to the European spots of the EPL without beating the top 4.  The top 4 in the EPL don't win against each of the lower teams all the time, points are dropped and it gives the likes of Wigan (last season) Portsmouth, Man City, everyone else a chance of doing well.

Lower number of teams restricts the competition and creates a bigger divide between the more wealthy teams and the the rest of the league.

I agree, but a lot of the smaller clubs have grounds incapable of handling Celtic/Rangers crowds, witness the scramble for tickets to Inverness/Falkirk, because the grounds are so small.

[Hairydude]

do most Scottish fans supporting a non top division team instinctively ally themselves to Celtic or Rangers? Is this taking place along religious or footballing lines?

for example I support Hamilton, or Dumbarton say.....will I have allegances in the big two, typically?

Yes it does happen and its quite sad to see to be honest- I like the idea of supporting your local team but its probably only natural that your going to want to see teams like Barca etc and are going to want to watch better football IMO

and things have changed within the SPL.... The big 2 do have more power but obviously they are going to look after their own interests... but to be honest since the SPL broke away from the SFA it has benefited all teams in the scottish top division. There is much more revenue being created and although rangers are celtic are getting a bigger slice-there is a bigger pie because the SFA dont get to chose how big that pie is.

I actually quite like the structure of the leagues in England... its all a pyramid system linked to the premiership so you've always got something to aim for to keep trying to move up the leagues

[TightEnd]

is there a route for young talent to start out in the lower leagues and get picked up by the SPL clubs?

or is it like England where the lower league English player prices are poor value compared to continental player prices?

whats the U21 Scottish set up like for example?

talent coming through or is it, as in England, blocked by non Scots in the big 4-6 teams?

[Rod Paradise]

is there a route for young talent to start out in the lower leagues and get picked up by the SPL clubs?

or is it like England where the lower league English player prices are poor value compared to continental player prices?

whats the U21 Scottish set up like for example?

talent coming through or is it, as in England, blocked by non Scots in the big 4-6 teams?

To be honest a lot of the young talent is coming straight through the SPL clubs. The smaller teams have realised they need to bring on young players & when they look abroad it is a case of looking for someone with ability struggling to make a breakthrough or someone who was good and may benefit from another chance. A worrying trend though is the on loan players from the EPL who get blooded in Scotland and then move back south - they don't add anything in the long term, only get the chance to play first team football earlier.

Even the big 2 are investing a lot in bringing through their own players, from Scotland/Ireland and further abroad (Celtic paid £150k for a Romainian 15/16 year old last week, and will put him stright into the training academy).

[TightEnd]

sorry guys, anorak afternoon here

How do the loads of Glasgow clubs living in the shadows of Cletic and Rangers survive?

I have a good friend, living in London, who is a Partick fan. travels up for every home game. He's passionate but I don't hear of a lot of non big 2 other glasgow club supporting fans

but there's St Mirren, Morton, Clyde, Clydebank  and close by Hamilton, Motherwell etc etc

are they all funded by directors that keep them afloat or do they earn enough to survive?

[Rod Paradise]

sorry guys, anorak afternoon here

How do the loads of Glasgow clubs living in the shadows of Cletic and Rangers survive?

I have a good friend, living in London, who is a Partick fan. travels up for every home game. He's passionate but I don't hear of a lot of non big 2 other glasgow club supporting fans

but there's St Mirren, Morton, Clyde, Clydebank  and close by Hamilton, Motherwell etc etc

are they all funded by directors that keep them afloat or do they earn enough to survive?

They've all come close to the wall at times AFAIK. Clydebank are now a Junior team after going out of business.

Partick did some clever work with selling ground at the stadium to developers, this has kept them going.

I'm not sure how the rest do it TBH - although Clyde have done good things with bringing kids through.

[boldie]

sorry guys, anorak afternoon here

How do the loads of Glasgow clubs living in the shadows of Cletic and Rangers survive?

I have a good friend, living in London, who is a Partick fan. travels up for every home game. He's passionate but I don't hear of a lot of non big 2 other glasgow club supporting fans

but there's St Mirren, Morton, Clyde, Clydebank  and close by Hamilton, Motherwell etc etc

are they all funded by directors that keep them afloat or do they earn enough to survive?

They've all come close to the wall at times AFAIK. Clydebank are now a Junior team after going out of business.

Partick did some clever work with selling ground at the stadium to developers, this has kept them going.

I'm not sure how the rest do it TBH - although Clyde have done good things with bringing kids through.

Morton was struggling for ages..went into admin I believe untill they got bought over.

[Bazzaboy]

is there a route for young talent to start out in the lower leagues and get picked up by the SPL clubs?

or is it like England where the lower league English player prices are poor value compared to continental player prices?

whats the U21 Scottish set up like for example?

talent coming through or is it, as in England, blocked by non Scots in the big 4-6 teams?

Young talent is getting moire of an opportunity due to the majority of clubs being skint and unable to afford to bring in players from abroad.  whether that talent is any good is debatable.

As for players coming through from the lower leagues..basically it doesn't happen most youngsters are picked up by SPL clubs and very few slip through the net.

[TightEnd]

so give me a rough equivalent then

Scottish Div 1 = English Division 1?

Div 2 = Conference?

Div 3 = Proper Non League ?

or do I do Scottish football a disservice here?


Gretna (albeit bankrolled) went from the Unibond to Div 1 and seem to have hit the ceiling at the bottom of the SPL.

or is it unfair to try to compare?

[Bazzaboy]

sorry guys, anorak afternoon here

How do the loads of Glasgow clubs living in the shadows of Cletic and Rangers survive?

I have a good friend, living in London, who is a Partick fan. travels up for every home game. He's passionate but I don't hear of a lot of non big 2 other glasgow club supporting fans

but there's St Mirren, Morton, Clyde, Clydebank  and close by Hamilton, Motherwell etc etc

are they all funded by directors that keep them afloat or do they earn enough to survive?

They barely stay afloat.  A few years back many came close to going to the wall (Clydebank and Airdrie did - Airdrie were reinvented as Airdrie UTD), this seems to have shocked the others to get their business in orderand they try and cut their cloth accordlingly.  There have been Owners who have come in and tried to pump money in to buy success eg Boyle at Motherwell and the Marrs at Dundee.  They had wild ideas of challenging the Old Firm however it didn'tquite go to plan and both went into administration.  

[Hairydude]

so give me a rough equivalent then

Scottish Div 1 = English Division 1?

Div 2 = Conference?

Div 3 = Proper Non League ?

or do I do Scottish football a disservice here?


Gretna (albeit bankrolled) went from the Unibond to Div 1 and seem to have hit the ceiling at the bottom of the SPL.

or is it unfair to try to compare?

lol, I think your doing the english div 1 injustice... I really dont think you can compare- there is so much money in english football that it makes it impossible to compare- look at peteborough signing guys from juniors for £420k- it really is incomparable

[Bazzaboy]

so give me a rough equivalent then

Scottish Div 1 = English Division 1?

Div 2 = Conference?

Div 3 = Proper Non League ?

or do I do Scottish football a disservice here?


Gretna (albeit bankrolled) went from the Unibond to Div 1 and seem to have hit the ceiling at the bottom of the SPL.

or is it unfair to try to compare?

Its a tough one and probably difficult to try and compare.  Division 1 would probably be somewhere between League 1 and League 2.  Divisions 2 and 3 would be non-league

[boldie]

so give me a rough equivalent then

Scottish Div 1 = English Division 1?

Div 2 = Conference?

Div 3 = Proper Non League ?

or do I do Scottish football a disservice here?


Gretna (albeit bankrolled) went from the Unibond to Div 1 and seem to have hit the ceiling at the bottom of the SPL.

or is it unfair to try to compare?

You're not far off IMO. I always compare the Dutch 1st division (or whatever they call it these days..the one below our Eredivisie anyways) with English div1 footie and Scottish div1/bottom of the SPL. The Championship in England is of a much higher standard than the Scottish div1. The main reason for this is the level of support a Championship club gets.

I reckon a club like Gretna would struggle to make an impact in the Championship..the same would go for Kilmarnock and clubs like that. The bottom half of the SPL would be mid-division at best in the English Championship. (The same goes for the bottom teams in the Dutch eredivisie)

[Rod Paradise]

so give me a rough equivalent then

Scottish Div 1 = English Division 1?

Div 2 = Conference?

Div 3 = Proper Non League ?

or do I do Scottish football a disservice here?


Gretna (albeit bankrolled) went from the Unibond to Div 1 and seem to have hit the ceiling at the bottom of the SPL.

or is it unfair to try to compare?

I think in a lot of cases you're complimenting lower league Scottish football . As a %age of population Scotland has the highest amount of atttendees at football, but in real terms the msmaller teams don't get the punters through the gate.

Gretna did a Wimbledon (but lost the SFA cup final) - but the descent will be quick. The promotion last year has hurt them I think - as their ground needed improvements and they're making very little money by groundsharing 60-70 miles up the M74. It shows the small minded nature of Scottish Football that Queen of the South (nearest to Gretna) refused to allow them to ground share even though Gretna would have funded improvements to their ground.

[TightEnd]

Rod, Bazzaboy, Hairydude, Fregus, Teacake, Bandit and the rest

who is your 2nd favourite Scottish team and why?


is there any interest in the ROI leagues up there?