Stars, $30+3, early on, top pair on a drawing board, decision time?

[pswnio]

PokerStars Game #15537259733: Tournament #78455880, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) -

2008/02/25 - 05:17:51 (ET)
Table '78455880 46' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Villain (2945 in chips)
Seat 2: (3250 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (2505 in chips)
Seat 4: (430 in chips)
Seat 5: (3920 in chips)
Seat 6: (2350 in chips)
Seat 7: (3050 in chips)
Seat 8: (6070 in chips)
Seat 9: (2480 in chips)
Seat 2: posts small blind 15
Hero: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [ ]
Seat 4: folds
Seat 5: folds
Seat 6: calls 30
Seat 7: calls 30
Seat 8: calls 30
Seat 9 folds
Villain: calls 30
Seat 2 calls 15
Hero: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Seat 2: checks
Hero: bets 150
Seat 6: folds
Seat 7: folds
Seat 8: folds
Villain: calls 150
Seat 2: folds
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Hero: checks
Villain: bets 420

Button is tight-agg over a small sample, no real reads. What does the size bet mean on the turn after he flat calls the flop bet? Why would he do this? You have lost a couple of pots but have been neither excessively aggressive nor weak.

If you were hero, what would your move be?

[boldie]

I don't like you leading out on that flop with a very weak hand against multiple players.

I check call on the flop. Check-raise the turn as played..

[pswnio]

How would you play turn if you had check called flop, Boldie?

[boldie]

How would you play turn if you had check called flop, Boldie?

I don't know really. Just two of us in the hand I probably check call the turn as well if I check call the river.
It's a pot control/bluff on the river (If the club comes I always lead out) option. It's a tricky situation you're in and not a very nice one (not your fault obviousy..just the way cards go)..10 J out of position is a massive pain in the neck against someone who got in cheap.


I have been known to just fold on the flop here as well as early on in a tourney I don't like to loose too many chips with a weak hand.

This sort of situation is the weakest part of my game (and I have plenty of weak parts) so I try to make it easy for myself.

[pswnio]

Yeah, it's tricky. But I don't like just passively folding - that way I often end up needing to push when shortish and having to race. So let's move away from hero's hand to villain's for a moment.

What does his call and then pot sized bet on the turn represent?

If he's potting the turn to get me off a draw, then why didn't he raise the flop to get me off a draw?

If he's just made a straight, why would he want to scare me off by potting it?

[boldie]

Yeah, it's tricky. But I don't like just passively folding - that way I often end up needing to push when shortish and having to race. So let's move away from hero's hand to villain's for a moment.

What does his call and then pot sized bet on the turn represent?

If he's potting the turn to get me off a draw, then why didn't he raise the flop to get me off a draw?

If he's just made a straight, why would he want to scare me off by potting it?

I agree.. If he made a straight on the turn here he would bet less. I still bet if i make the straight here but for pot buiding purposes only.

He could have the FD here and just bet the turn because he has position on you and you checked to him which he views as weakness. (in which case the checkraise should work if you ask him for all/most of his chips)

I have seen people play 99 this way. He calls the flop as there is only one over card.

A flopped set is a possible as he could very well play that this way. His turn bet being pot building. (in this case my "check raise" advise just cost you your entire stack...sorry)

Ace ten..possible but he probably would have reraised you on the flop.

89 is of course possible...

K10/Q10 more likely than A10 IMO if he's a poor player...less likely than the set or FD IMO.

For me it's a set, 89...or a flush draw. In one case check raising on the turn will win you the pot (if he's on the FD)...in the other a bet on the river if the club comes
would maybe give you the pot. (if he's on the set)

with the 89...well any bet would take it.

[doubleup]

After a bit of thought I will just give this up.  His range is too wide i.e. it contains drawy hands that could be monsters, could be semi bluffs that check raising prob just gets us in when we are beaten so we are effectively putting our whole stack at risk for a 400 pot.  Check calling both streets does get some money in on the river against bluffs I think, but prob not often enough.

[Longy]

I don't mind betting out at this flop, your hand is likely to be good more often than not.

I check/fold the turn to this size of bet.

[action man]

i think villian is raising the flop with any hand that would call a CRAI on turn so jammmmmmmm

[doubleup]

i think villian is raising the flop with any hand that would call a CRAI on turn so jammmmmmmm

Are you bluffing here or do you think your hand is best?

[pswnio]

i think villian is raising the flop with any hand that would call a CRAI on turn so jammmmmmmm

Are you bluffing here or do you think your hand is best?

I jammed thinking I had the best hand as per actionman's thinking...

[doubleup]

i think villian is raising the flop with any hand that would call a CRAI on turn so jammmmmmmm

Are you bluffing here or do you think your hand is best?

I jammed thinking I had the best hand as per actionman's thinking...

well you weren't bluffing - just trying to find out if actionman would do this with complete air (ignoring the fact that he would also have to have bet the flop into multiplayers with air) - which would be an interesting move.

[Longy]

Yeah i considered the crai but aren't we turning top pair into a bluff.The only hand we are getting value from unless villain is a real fish is 10 9, or some pretty big combo draw.

[AlexMartin]

I like b/f flop and c/f turn.

Hate cr ai on turn, any decent villain is gonna recognise ur hand aint all that unless you have dinged 108/Js9c which are both tiny parts of your range. I guess most average oppos this works a lot.

i think villian is raising the flop with any hand that would call a CRAI on turn so jammmmmmmm

Are you bluffing here or do you think your hand is best?

Obv bluffing. This is the whole turning a made hand into a bluff thing again, but iv never had a problem with it.

[doubleup]

Excuse me pswnio for hijacking the thread, but who would take Actiomans line with 53c or a bigger draw?