LHE Top 2 pairs against 5 opponents on the flop

[jpean]

Hello everybody.

I think that I've never said it before, so I'll do it now : thank you for all the help blonde and its members give me. Asking for help here helps me better than doing it on the only french forum like blonde I've found.

Here is the hand :

Transcript for game #15753245743 requested by julienfetus (jpean.net@hotmail.fr)
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #15753245743:  Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/03/05 - 05:04:08 (ET)
Table 'Circe' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: GGANZOMIERA ($2.26 in chips)
Seat 2: poppy88 ($2.47 in chips)
Seat 3: david gahan1 ($1.40 in chips)
Seat 4: xpakx ($3.49 in chips)
Seat 5: julienfetus ($1.60 in chips)
Seat 6: socasml ($1.58 in chips)
poppy88: posts small blind $0.02
david gahan1: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to julienfetus [ ]
xpakx: calls $0.05
julienfetus: calls $0.05
socasml: calls $0.05
GGANZOMIERA: calls $0.05
poppy88: calls $0.03
david gahan1: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
poppy88: checks
david gahan1: checks
xpakx: checks

Despite the number of opponets, I hope that I can think that I jave the best hand here... Am I wrong ? and even if someone had flopped a set, I draw the nut full...

But what to do : bet or try a check raise to put out some  people ?

[LuckyLloyd]

Limit (and particularly limit at this cash level) is not going to be a game where you can move people of draws / overcards / bottom pair / runner runner draws / gutshots etc, etc. Your edge in this game will be derived for betting for value more often than your opponents and having the greater discipline to pitch draws / hands where you are obviously crushed more often than they are capable of.

Your hand really should be good here and the board is quite dry. Thing is, a low stakes limit game like this is going to have players who are much more comfortable checking and calling than aggressively betting (unless they have a nut type holding when they won't bet enough probably). As such, with two players left to act it is more likely that they both check than bet. So you need to do your own betting here.

So I would bet, and just keep betting and raising for the rest of the hand unless:

- someone springs to life and caps the betting on the flop and turn against us;
- We get some nightmarish combination of turn and river cards;

[boldie]

yeah what Loyd said works for me.

You should have the best hand here and you have to bet out and get that pot as big as possible. You are betting for value rather than trying to move anyone off the flop as that is almost impossible to do in limit hold em at these levels.

[jpean]

thnks for your explainations...

here is the end of the hand :

julienfetus: bets $0.05
socasml: calls $0.05
GGANZOMIERA: calls $0.05
poppy88: calls $0.05
david gahan1: folds
xpakx: folds
*** TURN *** [ ] []
poppy88: checks
julienfetus: checks
socasml: checks
GGANZOMIERA: checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
poppy88: checks
julienfetus: bets $0.10
socasml: folds
GGANZOMIERA: calls $0.10
poppy88: calls $0.10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
julienfetus: shows [ ] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
GGANZOMIERA: mucks hand
poppy88: mucks hand
julienfetus collected $0.77 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.80 | Rake $0.03
Board [ ]
Seat 1: GGANZOMIERA (button) mucked [  ]
Seat 2: poppy88 (small blind) mucked [td ]
Seat 3: david gahan1 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: xpakx folded on the Flop
Seat 5: julienfetus showed [ ] and won ($0.77) with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 6: socasml folded on the River

maybe have I been too weak on the turn to maximise my EV here...

After having thank about what you said, I think that I may have played the wrong way on each streets ; beting on the river though the 8 could have made a straight,  and not beting on the turn on that blank 3... 

[LuckyLloyd]

maybe have I been too weak on the turn to maximise my EV here...

After having thank about what you said, I think that I may have played the wrong way on each streets ; beting on the river though the 8 could have made a straight,  and not beting on the turn on that blank 3... 

Yeah, the turn is a really awesome card to bet. It is a complete blank which means that:

- If we had the best hand on the flop we still have the best hand now;
- The villians are unlikely to have improved and if they played passively on the flop - we should not expect that they will bet this card for us and give us a chance to checkraise;

So definitely bet the turn. And definitely bet the river too. Even though a draw hit, there is no reason to think that someone had that draw. And at that level there are plenty of worse hands that will call your bet.

Don't worry, just learn from it and bet the bananas out of the calling stations!!

[jpean]

I like how you explain Lloyd... you don't only says yes or no, do this or do that, you make a complete explaination and I like that !!

Don't worry, just learn from it and bet the bananas out of the calling stations!!
+

Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence... i've only understood that it were probaly a joke

[LuckyLloyd]

Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence... i've only understood that it were probaly a joke

Correct. : )

[jpean]

for you I can play like that to which level of blind ??

from which on the game begins to be more serious ?

[LuckyLloyd]

for you I can play like that to which level of blind ??

from which on the game begins to be more serious ?

There are significant and noticeable jumps in standard and game dynamics when going from:

0.25 / 0.50 -> 0.50 / 1.00 -> 1 / 2 -> 2 / 4

Play a lot at where you are for now though. Enjoy it, try to do well. And when you find yourself winning consistently over an extended sample size move up to the next level. Rinse and repeat.

[jpean]

In fact, I'm actually a winner in 0.05/0.10, but when I move to 0.10/0.20, I make "yo-yo"...

[jpean]

As I said just before, I can win money when playing 0.05/0.10, but when I try to jump on the 0.10/0.20 tables, there a lot of hands like the one below, and I'm completely disapointed...

PokerStars Game #15766846466:  Hold'em Limit ($0.10/$0.20) - 2008/03/05 - 19:09:17 (ET)
Table 'Biarmia' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: badrhari ($14.24 in chips)
Seat 2: rickycrudbal ($2 in chips)
Seat 3: jdl683 ($1.60 in chips)
Seat 4: susie2 ($3.91 in chips)
Seat 5: julienfetus ($8.58 in chips)
Seat 6: pokerdad5 ($10 in chips)
julienfetus: posts small blind $0.05
pokerdad5: posts big blind $0.10
rickycrudbal: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to julienfetus [ ]
badrhari: calls $0.10
rickycrudbal: raises $0.10 to $0.20
jdl683: folds
susie2: folds
julienfetus: folds
pokerdad5: folds
badrhari: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [ ]
badrhari: checks
rickycrudbal: bets $0.10
badrhari: raises $0.10 to $0.20
rickycrudbal: calls $0.10
*** TURN *** [ ] []
badrhari: bets $0.20
rickycrudbal: raises $0.20 to $0.40
badrhari: raises $0.20 to $0.60
rickycrudbal: raises $0.20 to $0.80
Betting is capped
badrhari: calls $0.20
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
badrhari: bets $0.20
rickycrudbal: raises $0.20 to $0.40
badrhari: raises $0.20 to $0.60
rickycrudbal: raises $0.20 to $0.80 and is all-in
Betting is capped
badrhari: calls $0.20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rickycrudbal: shows [ ] (two pair, Kings and Tens)
badrhari: shows [ ] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
badrhari collected $3.95 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.15 | Rake $0.20
Board [ ]
Seat 1: badrhari showed [ ] and won ($3.95) with two pair, Aces and Deuces
Seat 2: rickycrudbal showed [ ] and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 3: jdl683 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: susie2 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: julienfetus (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: pokerdad5 (big blind) folded before Flop

I begin to think that growing level, number of donk does too... but normaly, it can't...