is the hand dead

[caesars sports lounge]

In a recent game I witnessed a hand that involved 2 players to the river, the river was checked by both players and one announced straight, the other pushed forward his cards towards the dealer but then said hang on I have a flush. The dealer said sorry the hand is mucked,please can you tell me if the hand is dead.

[boldie]

the hand has been mucked, so yes it is dead.

[matt674]

would it not depend on the rules of the house where the game is taking place. In some places i know the hand would be dead as soon as the player passes his cards but then in others the hand isnt declared dead until one of the two hole cards touches the muck - thereby enabling the dealer (if requested) to turn up the cards of the player passing on the river.

[jizzemm]

I thought the hand is not dead until it has hit the muck.. so I would say not dead. IMO everyhand that goes to showdown should be shown anyway then things like this would never happen..

[boldie]

I thought the hand is not dead until it has hit the muck.. so I would say not dead. IMO everyhand that goes to showdown should be shown anyway then things like this would never happen..

yeah I agree BUT if you throw your cards away then you lose the hand..that's the way it works for me.
I know lots of places say your cards have to touch the muck, IMO the rule should be that if you throw your cards away they are gone.

[doubleup]

Hmmm where exactly were the cards?  Were they face up at any time? Did the dealer have his hands on them?  What is the relevant written rule in the cardroom? 

The man had the best hand, it's probably a gray area, so he should really be pushed the pot.

[MANTIS01]

The bet line in NOT the muck. If both cards have passed the bet line but are nowhere near any other cards (the muck)  the player's hand cannot be disputed and so have not been "mucked". However, Grosvenor casinos have now renamed the bet line the "action line" and will deem cards that cross the line as dead. So as with every other rule in poker it changes from venue to venue just to keep us all guessing.

[boldie]

The bet line in NOT the muck. If both cards have passed the bet line but are nowhere near any other cards (the muck)  the player's hand cannot be disputed and so have not been "mucked". However, Grosvenor casinos have now renamed the bet line the "action line" and will deem cards that cross the line as dead. So as with every other rule in poker it changes from venue to venue just to keep us all guessing.

Well done Grosvenor!

[turny]

the bet line is indeed the muck, if you have pushed your cards away from you over this line then unfortunatly they are dead.
they do not have to be touching any other cards to be muced or touched by the dealer.
its the players responsibility to keep his cards protected and back from the bet line.

common sense does prevail in most situations here although the aboves should be kept to to gain consistancy.

[turny]

The bet line in NOT the muck. If both cards have passed the bet line but are nowhere near any other cards (the muck)  the player's hand cannot be disputed and so have not been "mucked". However, Grosvenor casinos have now renamed the bet line the "action line" and will deem cards that cross the line as dead. So as with every other rule in poker it changes from venue to venue just to keep us all guessing.

Well done Grosvenor!

agree here boldie lets just hope they are consistent with it regarding there rulings.

[MANTIS01]

The Grosvenor rule is consistent....until they pull out a temporary table with no line. Then they bugger themselves. Also I'm not entirely sure if the rule is like football e.g. the whole of the card must be over the whole of the line lol. Maybe they will introduce "action line" video technology  in the future to replay disputed muckings.

[turny]

The Grosvenor rule is consistent....until they pull out a temporary table with no line. Then they bugger themselves. Also I'm not entirely sure if the rule is like football e.g. the whole of the card must be over the whole of the line lol. Maybe they will introduce "action line" video technology  in the future to replay disputed muckings.

 

until there is a uniformed poker wide set of rules casinos and poker rooms can rule how they see fit.

[RED-DOG]

the bet line is indeed the muck, if you have pushed your cards away from you over this line then unfortunatly they are dead.
they do not have to be touching any other cards to be muced or touched by the dealer.
its the players responsibility to keep his cards protected and back from the bet line.

common sense does prevail in most situations here although the aboves should be kept to to gain consistancy.

Some (Most) Grosvenor tables don't have room for you to put your chips and cards behind the "Action" line.

I gather my cards in as they are dealt and I hold on to them, but I don't usually bring them in far enough to be my side of the line to begin with.

My cards have never been declared dead.

[turny]

the bet line is indeed the muck, if you have pushed your cards away from you over this line then unfortunatly they are dead.
they do not have to be touching any other cards to be muced or touched by the dealer.
its the players responsibility to keep his cards protected and back from the bet line.

common sense does prevail in most situations here although the aboves should be kept to to gain consistancy.

Some (Most) Grosvenor tables don't have room for you to put your chips and cards behind the "Action" line.

I gather my cards in as they are dealt and I hold on to them, but I don't usually bring them in far enough to be my side of the line to begin with.

My cards have never been declared dead.

yes but your protecting them at all times thats the important thing

[kinboshi]

I've said it before, these will soon be commonplace at poker tables throughout the country.