blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 10:38:54 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2272476 Posts in 66752 Topics by 16945 Members
Latest Member: Zula
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  Poker Hand Analysis
| | |-+  Learning Centre (Moderators: Longy, JungleCat03)
| | | |-+  Two Live Tournament Situations
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Two Live Tournament Situations  (Read 3824 times)
davidhendrie
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


View Profile
« on: March 16, 2008, 07:01:56 PM »

First post.

I’m a fairly new player but still needing to gain experience in a live environment, so constructive advice on interpreting that experience appreciated.

So… two situations from a £30 NL live freezeout (90 players) at the local casino last night.

Pretty basic one to start with. Blinds at 25/50, half-hour clock, ten-handed, starting stack of 5500, table seems pretty focused compared to some of the others / past experience. There’s been nearly one orbit of the table and it’s my first time on the big blind. One limper from early position, small blind calls, I have AKo and raise it up another 300. Two calls. Flop comes queen rag rag, so I have two overs and two to the nut flush. If SB checks then I’m probably having a go at the pot, but he bets just over half the pot and I fold, first limper folds, SB mucks.

I’m hating the weakness the fold shows, but my thinking is that I don’t want to get involved in a big pot this early on when I haven’t hit. Further into the tournament I might re-raise, but calling here on the hope that I hit something doesn’t seem too promising if I’m behind to KQ or QJ from the start, and I don’t want to risk it. This early on, is it a feasible play to just check the AK from the big blind and see what the flop brings or am I being too cautious?  Thoughts please.

Second situation:  Blinds now at 400/800, fifty players left, fairly new player to the table with a large stack has doubled me up with his AJs against my KK, so I’m sitting on around 15K, about one and a half times the average. I’ve not been involved in many hands and I think I’ve got a fairly tight image. Table has been generally quite tight but there have been a couple of pre-flop, all-in showdown between marginal hands. A couple of hands after doubling up I get pocket tens one off the button and it’s folded round to me. I raise up to 3K, as the standard 3xBB raise hasn’t been enough at this table. Button and SB folds, BB (who just doubled me up) pushes all his chips over the line, he’s got around 20K so he’s got me covered. Now, from the small amount of time he’s been at the table I’ve got him down as an aggressive but loose-ish player, I don’t think he’s necessarily tilting but I know he wants his chips back. Again, my thinking is that he’s prepared to make this move with a medium to high pair, a high ace or maybe even KQ, though I think (or hope) that he would just re-raise with Aces or Kings to make sure all more of my money’s going into the middle. Obviously I’m hating it if he turns over jacks, but I think his range is wide enough that I’ve got to call. He turns over AKo, hits his king on the flop, and that’s me. 

Now, I’m pretty sure I’ve made the right play here (feel free to disagree!), I’m getting around 3 to 2 on my money (my remaining 12K to win around 18K) and there’s a fair chance I’m ahead, even if only marginally. If I win then I’m going to be the big stack at the table and sitting fairly comfortable for the next stage of the tournament. But… at the same time I’m aware that it’s likely I’m going into a coin flip situation, and that I don’t need to call here. If I fold I’m still above the chip average, and if I didn’t already have chips invested in the pot I’d think a bit longer about folding.

I think I’m dwelling on this more than I normally might because I’ve just finished Sklansky’s Tournament Poker, where one of his key concepts is the importance of avoiding close gambles with a slight advantage.  So rather than go on further, what are your general thoughts on:

1)   Sklansky’s idea that marginally EV+ situations should be avoided in tournament situations, especially those involving your whole stack?

2)   If I’m right and the tens were just too good too fold in this situation, what raising hands would you be passing here? 99s? 88s? AQ? AJ? In other words, with 
       the pot odds above, when does the situation become marginal enough to consider passing what you still expect to be EV+ ?   

3)   I think my play’s pretty standard, but anything you would do differently?

Some of this might seem pretty transparent to more experienced players but I'm just trying to get a better understanding of these sorts
of common situations so I can improve my basic game. The PHA board has been really useful for me so all advice / criticism gratefully recieved. 

Cheers

David
Logged
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 07:07:26 PM »

Welcome to blonde David

on the first one do you know the player? might he fold to a semi bluff raise there? at the very least a raise there might get you a free card on the turn with your draw to the nuts...ideally I would want to see all five cards there and would be thinking about the best way to see that ie call to keep pot small or raise to win there and then or see the river. Folding seems v tight to me when you are deep and early

Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
davidhendrie
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 12:16:51 AM »

Glad to be here!

No, I don't know him, an older guy who looks... shrewd?  That, and the fact that someone else at the table mentioned his winning one of the larger tournaments at the casino (so presumably he knows what he's doing) recently, is all I got. The problem is a decent raise commits around a quarter of my stack, and at this point I guess I'm just not feeling confident enough about what his hand selection is like or how likely he would be to lay down top pair (if that's what he has of course) on that board. I need two more cards for the flush, that is, two hearts on the flop and the in my hand - I think I'd be more prepared to call or raise if I was only drawing to one heart for the nut flush, but as you say I might be playing a bit too tight.

On the second situation I'm just back from the pub where someone I play with regularly informed me at length on how I could have waited for a much more favourable situation before risking all my chips. I still think I've got to go with my read but maybe it wasn't such a good call after all, or at least a call that suggests I was more prepared to gamble than I want to admit to myself...
Logged
AlexMartin
spewtards r us
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8045


rat+rabbiting society of herts- future champ


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 02:07:43 PM »

Hi David, welcom to blonde.

hand 1, you have a monstrous hand. please do not fold this hand in this spot ever again. Generally i re-raise on the flop, depending on what he does you can work out if he has a weak or strong queen, which lets you bluff him even if you miss. Be careful about counting the A/K as outs as if he calls he likely has AQ/KQ/QJ, but you should be able to get a feel for where he is. He will now check the turn, almost all of the time. As tighty said, you now get a cheaper discount overall than calling two 2/3 pot bets on flop and turn.

hand 2, yeah this is a call. wp, ul, gg. Id probably pass all pairs 88 down, call with 99 up and AQ+. People overuse the resteal. And most live players dont pay a lot of attention to your image. Button/SB/BB dynamics are basically the fun part of end-game tournament poker and 1010 is very good against most ppl's range, especially against a loose player. Big, instant overbets preflop are very often AK by the way.
Logged
Longy
Professional Hotel Locator.
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10064


Go Ducks!


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 05:20:37 PM »

Hand 1: Either I have misread your OP or Alex and Tighty have I think. I think you are saying you have 3 to the nut flush not 4 and therefore I think this is a pretty standard fold. I like the way you played it. Sb normally always has some of this and we still have the limper to act behind us.

Hand 2: Given you have raised this from the cutoff and villain has already double you up with AJ, you simply can't pass this. There are opponents out there who would only 3bet you with a range which make 1010 a pass but I don't think this guy is one of them. As for the preflop raise, I would suggest simply ignoring table standards and make raises you are comfortable with. I make alot of smaller raises as I like to steal alot with position and for it not to cost too much. I would make it 2k to play here.
Logged
davidhendrie
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 06:43:51 PM »

Hand 1: Yes, sorry, a bit mis-described - I had three to the nut flush, not four.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Logged
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 07:01:31 PM »

Hand 1: Yes, sorry, a bit mis-described - I had three to the nut flush, not four.

Thanks for your thoughts.

sorry david I misunderstood.

without the four to the nut flush its a fold for me there
Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.133 seconds with 22 queries.