The day the WSOP Main Event died.

[Pyso]

Is it true that Harrah's have actually gone and done it?

Delaying the WSOP Main Event until November is the most idiotic, misguided and pointless decision ever taken in poker.

Let me think some comparable scenarios:

The FA Cup Final to be played in September when players will now be injured or have signed for someone else.

The Final round of The Open Championship to be played two weeks later when the weather and pin positions are completely different.

The Wimbledon final to be delayed six months so that we can all lose interest and then it can be rained on properly.


I'm sorry, I just don't get what they are trying to achieve.

What if someone gets to the final table and then receives massive help with their game? How fair is that?
What if someone, heaven forbid, gets ill or dies in the six month gap?
Will anyone still care six months later?

Harrah's have ruined the showpiece in poker, turning it into a reality tv farce.

A sad state of affairs.

Or am I over-reacting?

[Paullie_D]

Let me think some comparable scenarios:

The FA Cup Final to be played in September when players will now be injured or have signed for someone else.

The Final round of The Open Championship to be played two weeks later when the weather and pin positions are completely different.

The Wimbledon final to be delayed six months so that we can all lose interest and then it can be rained on properly.

Actually none of these are comparable but otherwise...no, you aren't over-reacting...just another Harrah's/ESPN stupid decision (IMO)

[ripple11]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=32776.0

[fatshaft]

The Final round of The Open Championship to be played two weeks later when the weather and pin positions are completely different.

Had a little LOL at that one.

[AndrewT]

The Final round of The Open Championship to be played two weeks later when the weather and pin positions are completely different.

Had a little LOL at that one.

 

[Ironside]

what happens if a finallist gets locked up for a period of time while he is on the break we all know poker players aint all saints

[FuglyBaz]

Barry Greenstein talked about this issue in a 2+2 podcast on May 6th. He doesnt seem to think the final 9 getting coaching will actually give them much of an/any edge. He talked about how he tried helping Mimi Tran out when she got to 3rd in a Foxwoods tournament (may have been WPT but not sure) then he tried to get her to change her play. She misunderstood his instructions and ended up busting when if she played as she had all day she may have won.

And even if the final nine are all amateurs, they would all be able to play to some level. It's not like they are as bad as the 2/4 cent players on Pacific. To get through a field of thousands yes you might be lucky in a lot of hands (will be more than 3 or 4 coinflips for every player) but generally they will have played well throughout and made decent decisions. You would have to be seriously lucky to not have a clue how to play and reach the final 9 thats for certain.

[kenjude]

I listened to the Greenstein interview on the way to work this morning. He did completely missed the point that Johnson made about the inconvenience to European players, for example,  without any of the so called benefits of this move being available to the European watching audience. It's highly unlikely we will see it 48 hours after it finishes without downloading it illegally.

I would go further - if Harrah's/ESPN don't arrange couriered disk copies of each episode of the TV coverage of the earlier days of the main event to be delivered to all non-US-based final table players at exactly the time they are aired in the States then they are creating a potentially uneven playing field.

It really doesn't matter whether or not Greenstein and the 2+2 community have differing opinions on the impact of the delay. Any difference between final table players in the conditions they face arising from this change would be totally unacceptable.

[fatshaft]

Barry Greenstein talked about this issue in a 2+2 podcast on May 6th. He doesnt seem to think the final 9 getting coaching will actually give them much of an/any edge. He talked about how he tried helping Mimi Tran out when she got to 3rd in a Foxwoods tournament (may have been WPT but not sure) then he tried to get her to change her play. She misunderstood his instructions and ended up busting when if she played as she had all day she may have won.

I have to agree with that, and also the mindset of a few of these players is likely to be one of "why do I need coaching, I'm in the last 9 of the WSOP on my own?"

I stated as much on =4, and of course was laughed out of the room, I guess now Barry Greenstein has said it it'll be nail on the head spot on. 

[boldie]

the only reason the name players like Greenstein and Chang like it is because they can milk it for all it's worth for the three months it's delayed and they can make tonnes of money out of it if they make the FT...even if they only have a shortstack...they're only looking out for themselves and don't give a crap about the actual tournament ....after all..."The HORSE 50k is the real championship now" is also something Mr Greenstein said.

[mondatoo]

the only reason the name players like Greenstein and Chang like it is because they can milk it for all it's worth for the three months it's delayed and they can make tonnes of money out of it if they make the FT...even if they only have a shortstack...they're only looking out for themselves and don't give a crap about the actual tournament ....after all..."The HORSE 50k is the real championship now" is also something Mr Greenstein said.

I think a lot of the pro's simply see the me as a total crap shoot (which it pretty much is) and the horse event is the 1 they all want to wn to prove who the best poker player is.Clearly this is a huge money spinner for them although it is a stupid idea see how it goes.How much of a buzz would u be on tho if you had 3 months of knowing you where going to be playing me ft.

[pokerram]

top pros have fought every other change . too much nl etc. But i think they dont argue with this as before final finalist will all be shown on tv many times. the pro willget advantage as they can pick up tells weaker players cant. also they will get 3 mths of endorsements. no wonder they are not bothered

[FuglyBaz]

top pros have fought every other change . too much nl etc. But i think they dont argue with this as before final finalist will all be shown on tv many times. the pro willget advantage as they can pick up tells weaker players cant. also they will get 3 mths of endorsements. no wonder they are not bothered

Whoever gets to the final 9 will get endorsements regardless of their professional status. Jon Kalmar got sponsorship, Hevad Khan and Raymond Rahme got endorsements from pokerstars last year. Jerry Yang although not a Full Tilt pro is a 'friend of' Full Tilt and probably got some cash off that. If any of the pros like Greenstein or Negraneu made the FT of the Main Event they would have poker related endorsements in place already.

The commercial ad endorsements etc will come down to who is most marketable. Someone like Huck Seed (Quiet chap) for example wouldn't be approached for things as much as Kid Poker would because he has a certain charm. But if you are somebody who has a marketable personality why would you refuse the opportunity that comes your way in the three month period?

I think to say the Players commitee aren't bothered is a little unfair though. But of course they must have some interest for themselves. Aside the above which is obvious, I think that they are looking for another angle to entice new players to the game, because as Barry mentioned in the =4 podcast money has dried up in the big games so he has to play smaller. Players are getting better by the day so you need new fish to replace the old one so this could be one thing the pros are hoping this delay will achieve.

I don't think the picking up of tells will become too much of an issue. If they have an overwhelming chip lead they will probably win regardless (like jamie Gold did). If they have a stupidly short shortstack then they won't survive long enough to use these 'tells' they have picked up. I don't know how reliable the information is you get on the TV shows anyway as a lot of it is edited to show certain people in certain ways. I'm sure they will take the way their opponents are presented with a pinch of salt because the only way to know somebody properly is to sit there in front of them.

Look at the way ESPN showed Jamie Gold. I bet if they had shown him from the start of Day 1 in 2006 they would probably seen that he was a half decent recreational player. But they didn't - they showed him when he had so many Big Blinds that he could call any player with any two cards. Despite peoples opinions of him he wasn't a donk, he played the tournament well given his stack. They also showed some of his table talk and yes some of that was out of line. But they never show you the whole story.

I guess what I'm trying to say is how can a 'professional' player make a complete decision without full information?

[Hairydude]

What I would be most annoyed at is being stopped when I was feeling I was playing pretty good poker- all players that get to the final table will be feeling that they are in the zone, but then get stopped and having to get into the right mentality 3 months down the line will be hard. You'd also have various instincts against some players and their plays and although you might not forget their traits you wont be in the same state of mind you were when you got there.

[pokerram]

valid pts baz