Is this the worst ruling ever?

[The_duke]

go on then - where was it hidden

[77dave]

go on then - where was it hidden

If i was the TD i would ask why did you turn your cards over. If im told its cos i thought he was all. i would then ask where was the chip that wasnt allin. If im told its cos it was in his hand and not on the table i would have the common sense to realise this was either a genuine mistake by both parties or angle shooting.

If im told it was the guy with the 1 chip in his hand id him for taking chips off the table during a hand and award the whole pot to the other guy.

[relaedgc]

go on then - where was it hidden

If i was the TD i would ask why did you turn your cards over. If im told its cos i thought he was all. i would then ask where was the chip that wasnt allin. If im told its cos it was in his hand and not on the table i would have the common sense to realise this was either a genuine mistake by both parties or angle shooting.

If im told it was the guy with the 1 chip in his hand id him for taking chips off the table during a hand and award the whole pot to the other guy.

If someone has pushed all of their chips past the line and someone has called and then turned over their cards, you need to look at the situations on a case by case basis. Every situation is different and it's a matter of applying common sense.

First and foremost, it's a tough situation for TD's and rulings will always be given incorrectly. In my opinion, the TD needs to analyse a few things.

1) Why did the player table his cards.

a) Because he wanted to expose his cards for some reason.
b) Because the player thought they were on their backs, having seen the player push all his chips in.

He needs to know key information from the dealer here. Particularly whether the last single chip left behind was visible or held by the player. If it was hidden, then the player is at fault for hiding his chips and I would say no further betting to take place and decide the winner of the hand from that point. The caller has called believing it to be all in and clearly the player that has hidden a chip is at fault for hiding his chips. I would ask that he table his cards also and in future make sure every chip is on visible display to all the table. It is his responsibility to do that.

[owen1923]

Cards Should speak in that situation. Full Stop.

[gatso]

thats a ridic ruling. Demand refund and speak to manager.

reminds me of dodgy thing that happened with some fit oriental bird in the bellagio 1knl game. She declares allin (for what appears to be $1500ish) and some guy calls, then he realises that the card protector she's using is a $5k chip. He covers her and she has the nuts.

am I missing the point on this one? the 5k chip was in play and in plain view no?

[AlexMartin]

thats a ridic ruling. Demand refund and speak to manager.

reminds me of dodgy thing that happened with some fit oriental bird in the bellagio 1knl game. She declares allin (for what appears to be $1500ish) and some guy calls, then he realises that the card protector she's using is a $5k chip. He covers her and she has the nuts.

am I missing the point on this one? the 5k chip was in play and in plain view no?

was in one of those chip protection devices (novelty chip jobbies) so pretty well disguised. She pushes her stack in, says all-in, but her cards (and the card protector on top of them) stay infront of her. Only when he says call does she demand the 5k be matched.

[gatso]

thats a ridic ruling. Demand refund and speak to manager.

reminds me of dodgy thing that happened with some fit oriental bird in the bellagio 1knl game. She declares allin (for what appears to be $1500ish) and some guy calls, then he realises that the card protector she's using is a $5k chip. He covers her and she has the nuts.

am I missing the point on this one? the 5k chip was in play and in plain view no?

was in one of those chip protection devices (novelty chip jobbies) so pretty well disguised. She pushes her stack in, says all-in, but her cards (and the card protector on top of them) stay infront of her. Only when he says call does she demand the 5k be matched.

ahh, ok. I thought you meant she was just protecting her hand with a chip.

in that case, very wrong

[stoneii]

Is this the worst ruling ever?

Yes, imo

[Ironside]

if carlsberg made rulings this wouldnt be it

[gatso]

i'm over in Riga with ScotlandStu and a couple of others and we played the plo rebuy tonight at the olympic casino.  Stu was in a pot that would have had him close to the chip lead.  His opponent bet the turn with all the chips in front of him and Stu called and turned over his cards. The opponent then revealed a chip hidden in his hand and asked for Stu's hand to be declared dead which it was.......

Anyone ever heard worse?

TDA rule 23

Chips Visible All chips must be visible at all times. Players may not hold or transport
tournament chips in any manner that takes them out of view. A player
who does so will forfeit the chips and will face disqualification. The
forfeited chips will be taken out of play.

[boldie]

that's shocking...and I would go off my head if the TD ruled that way. was the other player a local by any chance?

[Indestructable]

Did the guy say all in?

Not sure that is relevant - the player pushed all his visible chips in and concealed one remaining chip.  His intention was clearly to give the impression that he was allin

I was interested in what the player actually said. E.G. If he said all in, then obviously it is all in including the other chip. I am guessing that the other player actually said nothing?

[stoneii]

I was interested in what the player actually said. E.G. If he said all in, then obviously it is all in including the other chip. I am guessing that the other player actually said nothing?

It was an angle shoot, since he tried it again later, so I guess it was a well rehearsed silent push of all but the hidden chip.  Terrible decision and TD should be ashamed.  That just makes it clear to some that it can indeed pay to cheat!