Petrol Prices - Are they to high - What can we do about it.

[Newmanseye]

Irn-Bru?

 

[nirvana]

LolmcLol, Boldie it's simple - we're not allowed to take responsibility because we have no choice about our money being taken and spent this way. We hand over power to someone else to provide what they feel we deserve - personally, in matters of my and my family's health (above all other services I purchase), I prefer to choose who I pay for the service.

So... actually many of us do take responsibility for ourselves, and also pay for the rest of you, rich and less rich alike.

Why 'free at the point of delivery' is some kind of shibboleth I don't fathom. If I insure myself with a better provider than the NHS it is 'free at the point of delivery' anyway so it's just one of the nonsense phrases bandied about in the debate.

[nirvana]

And as for idea - I would privatise the NHS - use some of the cost saving to reduce taxes and some to provide higher benefits to those genuinely in need (rather than idle). With higher properly targeted benefits then people, even on benefits, could still choose where to buy their healthcare. Just like they choose their supermarket or car or beer or whatever.

If anyone thinks  that government can ever deliver a competitive solution then ...... cuckoo !

[Acidmouse]

I would privatise the NHS -

I need a doctor after being shafted by British Gas (or whatever it is called now) because they are completely taking the piss and can do what they want now they are privatised.

They make whatever profit they want on the back of increased fuel costs and there is nothing we can do, because something the people owned was sold off. Its a false economy, we save in the short term and would end up paying more in the long term for health care.

[boldie]

And as for idea - I would privatise the NHS - use some of the cost saving to reduce taxes and some to provide higher benefits to those genuinely in need (rather than idle). With higher properly targeted benefits then people, even on benefits, could still choose where to buy their healthcare. Just like they choose their supermarket or car or beer or whatever.

If anyone thinks  that government can ever deliver a competitive solution then ...... cuckoo !

..sorry but someone actually still believes privatisation works? PFI actually cost tax payer money, private and faith schools cost tax payer's money, network rail....well I'm thinking you can see where I'm going.

It is fine that there are private hospitals but they sure as hell should not be paid for with tax payers money. (as quite a few of them are now) The only country where almost all hospitals are privatised is the US, the cost of healthcare is through the roof over there, the cost of insurance is through the roof over there as well.. so how exactly would the poorer/worse off or even middle class people afford this?

A hospital as a profit making organisation is possible but it sure as heck's patootin' will not lead to the worse off being cared for.
If anyone thinks that privatisation leads to healthy competition in this case while still providing for the needy they are delusional..not just cuckoo but really..plain delusional...really..honestly...nuts..crazy..insane...

*walks off mumbling to himself and shaking his head*

[boldie]

LolmcLol, Boldie it's simple - we're not allowed to take responsibility because we have no choice about our money being taken and spent this way. We hand over power to someone else to provide what they feel we deserve - personally, in matters of my and my family's health (above all other services I purchase), I prefer to choose who I pay for the service.

So... actually many of us do take responsibility for ourselves, and also pay for the rest of you, rich and less rich alike.

Why 'free at the point of delivery' is some kind of shibboleth I don't fathom. If I insure myself with a better provider than the NHS it is 'free at the point of delivery' anyway so it's just one of the nonsense phrases bandied about in the debate.

uber tilt@ this post..just going to leave it I think.

[boldie]

I've never understood why we generally seem to want to exercise personal choice in most everything but real debate about the health service seems taboo.

I don't think people want government to provide us with a house, a car, clothes, blah blah, but when it comes to our most important choice in terms of looking after ourselves we seem, in general, to want the government to provide it - yet, Governments just don't do 'efficient' or 'good service'.

It's a bit like universal child benefit -it's a ridiculous notion but hard to challenge without sounding reactionary  - I can genuinely say all the child benefits I received should have gone to someone more needy.

The NHS is an extension of the benefits system and so encourages us to abdicate responsibility for ourselves and hand over control to a higher power - its a bit like a religion.

Why are we so incapable of reducing the tax take by making people pay for their own services rather than public services and at the same time look after the genuinely needy ? It can't be that difficult

lol Really? How does the NHS treating people for free (at the point of service) means people relinquish responsibility..I don't get that at all? If it shouldn't be that difficult to change it how would you do it? Surely you must have an idea.

I agree on child benefits not being necessary..in fact I disagree with child benefits on principle..I should not have to pay simply because people choose to breed.

OK lets take this a stage further then boldie, If we don't have a system to "help" people with kids, what happens to the next generation?  with we just have more kids dropping out of school? More kids draining the benefits system at 16/17/18  you either support them now when its +EV to give them every chance possible or later when the damage is done and no bugger gives a toss because they will be labled a "lazy bastard"

Supporting them later costs more....

Take Glasgow as an example its almost a 40% unemployment rate (including people on incapacity benefit), of that number      around 80,000 are between the ages of 17 - 24.

Now what caused this? 

answers on a post card please.

Very simple, poor parenting and people having to many kids. 40% unemployment rate, my arse..I (and almost everybody in Glasgow) can walk into any employment agency in Glasgow tomorrow and get a shitty job..but a job that pays some bills. Almost EVERY 17-24 YO is fit enough to work..the fact that they don't makes me wonder about their mentality.

Really, I don't see how the above can be taken as a defense for the universal child benefits scheme...or how it is even related to it. If you can't afford to have children..you don't have children...not that difficult really, is it? If I can only afford to have one child...I should not go to the government for money to pay for 2 or 3.
Child benefits were started to get people to have more kids...not to help people who had children and were struggling.

I already pay for the schools, and subsidise the universities so people's kids can go to that.
.I should NOT have to pay to feed them or clothe them or keep the electricity running..that is the parents' job. I'm not going to ask YOU to feed my kids when I have them..I'll do that myself.

Really, people who can easily make ends meet still get a bit of cash because they have a kid..it's ridiculous..and the people that defend it always go on about the "needy" kids...needy my arse..if your parents both work they don't need to get money from the government to feed you..

If someone is on benefits they should get a decent amount of money that takes care of their family but not every parent should get a bit of "breeding money" simply because they know how to procreate (or rather don't know where to buy a profilactic).

[mondatoo]

Haven't read the last 19pages as i simply cant really be arsed but 2 things 1 on original topic fuel prices are a joke but cant see fuk all we can do about it.2ndly and the only reason i'm actually posting on here 4 is if when i'm serioulsy ill if i've been stupid enough not to pay into a private health place and need to really on the nhs to take care of me i will be purcashing a gun and end it there and then they nhs is a fukn joke imo just like the govt as a whole is.
 

[ifm]

Scrap the NHS, reduce petrol prices, then listen to these same people whine about no health service.

The attitude of some people in this country tilts me hard!

I suppose you are with Bupa with being a Pro and not haveing to pay NI, we possibly all would be if we could afford. NI contributions are small compared to the service we get from the NHS, I also agree that we would possibly be better doing like the USA but also alot of tax changes would have to be implemented too. I can not see this happening during my remaing years.

I am making a point, people in this country seem to want something for nothing, the NHS has to be funded, if we start cutting petrol tax then things like the NHS will suffer. It's a simple choice, lower taxes less services, higher tax more service.

As it happens i think healthcare could be reformed no end in this country, i would love to see a governent start some sort of reward system for companies that cover thier staff with health insurance thus easing the burden on the NHS. There are too many people using the NHS when in reality they could quite easily afford to go private, this would allow the NHS to improve no end and help those people who can't afford to go private far more efficently.

Tosh, there are plenty of ways to reduce government spending.
It's the naive or the taxors (is that a word?) that claim the only way to lower tax is to cut back on health and services.

[Newmanseye]

Scrap the NHS, reduce petrol prices, then listen to these same people whine about no health service.

The attitude of some people in this country tilts me hard!

I suppose you are with Bupa with being a Pro and not haveing to pay NI, we possibly all would be if we could afford. NI contributions are small compared to the service we get from the NHS, I also agree that we would possibly be better doing like the USA but also alot of tax changes would have to be implemented too. I can not see this happening during my remaing years.

I am making a point, people in this country seem to want something for nothing, the NHS has to be funded, if we start cutting petrol tax then things like the NHS will suffer. It's a simple choice, lower taxes less services, higher tax more service.

As it happens i think healthcare could be reformed no end in this country, i would love to see a governent start some sort of reward system for companies that cover thier staff with health insurance thus easing the burden on the NHS. There are too many people using the NHS when in reality they could quite easily afford to go private, this would allow the NHS to improve no end and help those people who can't afford to go private far more efficently.

Tosh, there are plenty of ways to reduce government spending.
It's the naive or the taxors (is that a word?) that claim the only way to lower tax is to cut back on health and services.

I know how they could save £200 million straight away.

[ifm]

Tax poker, see if flushy thinks there's no problem then!

[nirvana]

"..sorry but someone actually still believes privatisation works? PFI actually cost tax payer money, private and faith schools cost tax payer's money, network rail....well I'm thinking you can see where I'm going"

No I can't see where you're going but the info tends to reinforce my view rather than change it. It would also be easy to list many very succesful privatisations but you're intelligent so you know this.

I agree PFI's  are a waste of time and they shouldn't cost the taxpayer anything - let government just get out of the way completely and we'll all get what we're prepared to pay for.

[AndrewT]

Privatising the health service is a nonsensical idea. Running hospitals for profit?

Private companies only work in places where there the consumer has a genuine choice. When there isn't a choice, it doesn't work. Look what happened to the railways.

If I break my leg here in London, I'm not going to choose to go to an A&E in Cardiff because I heard they provide a good service, or are cheap. I'm going to go to the closest one.

Can someone explain how this private health service is going to work better than the NHS? Or give successful examples of public industries which were made private to the benefit of the general population?

[wader leg]

I couldn't agree more Boldie, also the amount of people claiming Working Family Tax Credit. There are people I know who are quite comfortably off, both parents working, two cars, nice house yet they get rewarded for having kids.
When the government eventually start taxing us on how big our carbon footprint is I'm looking forward to getting a carbon neutral rating due to the fact I haven't spawned any oxygen depleting, carbon dioxide and methane emitting nappy wearing little darlings. If people wish to own these environmentally unfriendly products they should be taxed to the hilt not rewarded IMHO.
 

[madasahatstand]

Privatising the health service is a nonsensical idea. Running hospitals for profit?

Private companies only work in places where there the consumer has a genuine choice. When there isn't a choice, it doesn't work. Look what happened to the railways.

If I break my leg here in London, I'm not going to choose to go to an A&E in Cardiff because I heard they provide a good service, or are cheap. I'm going to go to the closest one.

Can someone explain how this private health service is going to work better than the NHS? Or give successful examples of public industries which were made private to the benefit of the general population?

It won't. The USA has private health care and has caused the greatest health inequalities in the world in that country. If you don't give a chite about people who can't afford health care insurance then I guess you could argue that it works. If anyone has watched ER you will see numerous examples of people who come time and time again to the emergency room because they are in health crisis because they don't have the insurance for their long term health condition and the drugs they need to take for it. In the UK people get better access to healthcare and have their long term conditions managed and treated in a way to reduce health crisis.

There are many examples of poor practice in the NHS but there are thousands more of good and excellent practice, you just don't get them being reported.

Keep your private health care!!