Playing AK vs the Fish

[boldie]

I think that its worth noting that according to sharkscope "hero" has a negative roi.

So do I lol

[EvilPie]

A good player in that situation will min raise with a made hand i.e. flush and flat call a big drawing hand.

A good player will do whatever he thinks will get the most out of his oppo. That often means doing exactly the opposite of what weaker players perceive as being the right thing to do.

A poor player in that situation will flat call a made hand and raise a drawing hand.

Not trying to nit pick but you flat called with a made hand on the flop. Why didn't you just shove your chips in when you knew you were ahead?

I am sure I have the best hand at this point but do not feel I have a big enough advantage to shove vs a flush draw with 2 cards to come. WHAT you say how can you not Jam here?? Well I am only a 60/40 favourite to win the hand at this point if my read is correct.  Flat calling allows me to get away from the hand on the turn if another club falls. When the blank () hits the turn I can now get the rest of my chips in as a big favourite.

60/40 would be plenty good enough for me to get all my chips in the middle. Long term if you're ahead and favourite you have to get as many chips in the middle as possible.

Flat calling effectively gives him a free turn card. His money's already in the pot and you're not charging him any more to get exactly what you think he wants. His raise was intended to make you fold. He's not 100% sure of his 6 so he doesn't really want any more action. By flat calling there's now that many chips in the pot that even on the blank turn he can't possibly fold.

I think that as played he probably thought that his 6's were good and that it was you who was drawing to a bigger flush. He was trying to get you off the pot but you kept fishing for that club. I bet he was in shock when he saw what you actually had.

[chrisbruce]

Boldie

firstly I am enjoying this debate / discussion its gets me thinking which is good.

A. That is my opinion / read of this particular situation and I was spot on.
B.  60/40 is my at best odds if I am up against a hand like I am a 45 /55 dog that would become 70/30 Favourite on a blank turn
C. I got a call on my turn push from ....cos as I said he is a fish....poor players struggle to get away from hands on the turn..
D. Can I prove that I have lost more money online vs a flush draw on the flop .....probably........but who cares?  But I am fed up losing those situations and Personally I will not get all my money in on the flop.

The point of this thread though is that I will play hands differently against players with a poor track record than proven winners.

On a side issue are you really able to see my Sharscope? I dont really want to be discussing strategy and giving away my screen name. for the record I have a positive r.o.i. after digging myself out of a large sharkscope hole.

[doubleup]

On a side issue are you really able to see my Sharscope?

I said "hero" lol (it is actually someones screen name)

[EvilPie]

But I am fed up losing those situations and Personally I will not get all my money in on the flop.

The point of this thread though is that I will play hands differently against players with a poor track record than proven winners.

Don't get fed up losing in these situations. It happens a lot and you probably remember the loses far more readily than the wins. Everybody's got a bad beat story but not many people tell you about the time their kings held up against the fish with a flush draw.

Long term you will win more than you lose. If you're on a bad run so have lost a few and decide to give up on them you will never achieve the long term potential of 60 40 or 70 30 hands.

Poor players are brilliant. Anyone who allows you to get all your chips in against them when they're behind should be encouraged and taken advantage of. Dont' give them the chance to escape cheaply on the off chance that they may hit.

[chrisbruce]

Ok mate I take on board your point.

As it happens I am running ok at the moment cashing 3 out of the last 4 sit n gos.

I had 2 situations with AK again both when I have 30bb or more.......getting boring now....

1. Raise and re raise from a player with solid stats I pass AK suited and the initial raiser passes.

2 . open shove from mid position for 1400 chips blinds 25 / 50 from a player with a poor record I call with AK and lose to A 4 .....sigh.......not moaning just trying to justify / explain my decision making.

[AlexMartin]

without being 2 arrogant I put him on that near exact hand. Or what I was sure was a one club hand.

Now here is my logic/ thinking in this sort of situation.

A good player in that situation will min raise with a made hand i.e. flush and flat call a big drawing hand.

A poor player in that situation will flat call a made hand and raise a drawing hand.

I am sure I have the best hand at this point but do not feel I have a big enough advantage to shove vs a flush draw with 2 cards to come. WHAT you say how can you not Jam here?? Well I am only a 60/40 favourite to win the hand at this point if my read is correct.  Flat calling allows me to get away from the hand on the turn if another club falls. When the blank () hits the turn I can now get the rest of my chips in as a big favourite.

This slightly skewy logic is derived from 2 things.

1. I  play hands differently online than I would in a live card situation.
1. Online I have lost more money than I have won getting all my money / chips in against a flush draw on the flop

Wow..i am almost on what Flushy would call "live tilt" here.

A; a Good player will min-raise a made hand like a flush? Really? I must have skipped that masterclass.
B; 60-40 is not a big enough advantage? just how big does your advantage have to be?
C; when the blank turn hits I can get my chips in as a big favourite..BUT You won't get a call from a  FD, will you?..so the turn betting would effectively only be to take the pot down?

D; Online I have lost more money than I have won getting all my money in against a FD? Do you have records for that?..That's very specific records you have to be keeping. Also that could of course be described as variance, no?..We had already established that you are a favourite if you get all your money in against the FD...so (unless online poker is rigged) you should be happy to get your money in against a FD...if only you do it consistantly and often enough you should win money...rather than lose it in this situation.

E; playing hands differently online than live...yes but surely not to the extent that you don't want to get your money in as a favourite online?

I might be missing something here (Lord knows that often happens) but if you could run over those points for me that'd be good as I really don't get your thinking there.

OMG, read the highlighted points againt and cringed. I agree boldie, life tilt.