To the other LFC supporters on here....

[bolt pp]

Signing Gareth Barry will not close the gap on the teams above Liverpool last season.

You've said what I've been trying to for 2 pages in one line.

fcking hell, how hard were you trying?

[The Baron]

I hate Bolt.

[bobby1]

Baron - what would need to change at LFC for you to trust the current owners?

Ownership. Simple as really. It's gone past being about money. It's about lies. Sucking in the fans who only read the London rags etc and believe what they say.

If they were to stay a few things need to happen.

1) Parry must go

2) The stadium must be built as a priority

3) Regardless of what is spent in transfer funds the truth must be told. Not "we spent 50 million" when the truth is closer to Benitez spent 40, gained 23-25 in income and didn't even spend that seasons earnings from TV rights! The fans aren't stupid. We know what an EPL season is worth financially. Dont say stuff like "we'll never borrow money against the club" and then go and do it!

4) We shouldn't ever hear about the wrangles in the press. Hicks in particular needs to shut up.

5) If they cant agree to work together Hicks need to consider that either his partner or both of them must sell for the good of the club. Whilst this goes on and we keep competing on an uneven playing field financially we're risking doing a Leeds. Either back us together or do one. The one time Benitez had money he bought Torres and Babel (and Mascherano) - good investments and we made another step forwards.

That list is too long. In a perfect world they'll go. If they dont I dont now if they'll ever win our trust back - too many lies.

great point re transfer fees.

Generally in football fans don't understand the transfer market at all and Chairman these days are getting away with it. When a team spend 20 million on one player and 30 on another the chaiman has spent precisely none of that. The club usually pay for the player in installments over the length of their contract so it is the club paying for the player and has nothing to do with the chairman in most cases(Chelsea excluded). If Liverpool pay 4 million a year for 5 years to pay for Torres what exactly has the the chairman spent? and in the books he has an asset that is worth 20 million before its even been paid for. So in the books this year we owe Athletico 4 mill in one column, in the other column we have a 20 million asset.

Sam Hamann and Mandaric have tried the same trick at a couple of clubs, buying into them at their low ebb and turning them around finaincially with prudence and cuts behind the scenes while still appearing to be spending money on players( they are oking the signings but arent paying for them directly) but in both cases all they have done is quick hit the clubs with new optimism, raised the value of the playing squad at no cost to themselves and then sold on when the value of their investment as increased. Mandaric has got it badly wrong at Leicester but got it very right at Portsmouth.

Prob Liverpool have is it looks like these two Yankee boys are trying the same thing there which is a shame as a club of that size don't deserve it.

Luckily there are accounting standards to prevent this! There are two separate things going on with football player accounting.

A player is held as an asset, and their value is taken to P&L over the course of their contract.ie Michael Owen costs Newcastle about 4.5m a year in their P&L account - but in terms of cash he is paid for (bar 1m which I don't think has yet gone through for his first team appearances)

If there was an installment payment plan (which actually don't cover that big a % of most deals, except where unproven or injury prone)then it would all be accounted for, being held as a liability to match off against the asset.

The actual cash out the door would be shown in the cashflow. The majority of transfers I have seen have large lump sum payments at the time of the transfer. I'd say they have spent (in terms of what fans are interested in) the cahs out the door and the liability that they have commited the club to - ie the whole figure that you tend to see. (though I think this should include the deal that has been gven to the player as these are often as big as the transfer fee)

Hi Rooky, where do you work mate?

[Rooky9]

I'd prefer not to say!!! But my job title is the same as below.

I'm not disagreeing with your point that the Chairmen don't actually pay for them - even at Chelsea its the clubs that take ownership (meaning risks & rewards) of the asset/players registration.

[bobby1]

I'd prefer not to say!!! But my job title is the same as below.

I'm not disagreeing with your point that the Chairmen don't actually pay for them - even at Chelsea its the clubs that take ownership (meaning risks & rewards) of the asset/players registration.

ok mate no probs.

[mondatoo]

I used to always find it quite amusing when people would always say freddie shephards been a good chairmen as he'd put so much money into the club when the fact was that he never put none of his own money in it was just profits of the club FACT!

[Rooky9]

I think he will have put his own in, to buy shares (though he might not have), but he made a lot more out of it than he ever put in from a shocking salary, dividends and then selling on to Ashley. prior to being a plc I'm not sure what he had in there. I think him and the Halls had loaned a decent amount to the club during the early 90's growth. I'd assume they got it all back with interest though.

[mondatoo]

Putting his own money in to buy shares doesn't reallly count though rooky seen as this is a personal invetsment for himself to be fair, i ment for transefers.

[bobby1]

Just about the best example there has been of a chairman that has made out he has spent loads of cash when he hasnt for the benefit of making a fortune from selling the club on.

On a slightly diff subject I read somewhere that Mike Ashby has lost over 600 million pounds from his share portfolio since February with the dramatic drop in banking shares.

Net result is he isnt so keen to spend the money he promised King Kev.

You heard owt about that Mondatoo?

[Rooky9]

Putting his own money in to buy shares doesn't reallly count though rooky seen as this is a personal invetsment for himself to be fair, i ment for transefers.

To be fair I don't think there are really that many chairmen that do put their own money in for transfers, and where they do, like Chelsea its only a loan - albeit in their case it'll never get repaid in full. Shepard and Hall junior were both very much in it for themselves.

Just about the best example there has been of a chairman that has made out he has spent loads of cash when he hasnt for the benefit of making a fortune from selling the club on.

On a slightly diff subject I read somewhere that Mike Ashby has lost over 600 million pounds from his share portfolio since February with the dramatic drop in banking shares.

Net result is he isnt so keen to spend the money he promised King Kev.

You heard owt about that Mondatoo?

He did loss a good chunk, either 400m or 600m in the times rich list, can't remember which. It isn't real money though and I'd be suprised if that was the reason he didn't want to invest more. Noone was more upset than him when England didn't qualify for Euro 08!!

He has already put in massive $$$, more than he was anticipating I believe. We'll have to see what happens this summer and maybe more importantly next summer. One thing is for sure he didn't buy it for a Chelsea type situation and I'm pleased he hasn't gone down the route of Man U and Liverpool in their financing.

Sorry, know that wasn't directed at me but I'm bored!!

[mondatoo]

Putting his own money in to buy shares doesn't reallly count though rooky seen as this is a personal invetsment for himself to be fair, i ment for transefers.

To be fair I don't think there are really that many chairmen that do put their own money in for transfers, and where they do, like Chelsea its only a loan - albeit in their case it'll never get repaid in full. Shepard and Hall junior were both very much in it for themselves.

Just about the best example there has been of a chairman that has made out he has spent loads of cash when he hasnt for the benefit of making a fortune from selling the club on.

On a slightly diff subject I read somewhere that Mike Ashby has lost over 600 million pounds from his share portfolio since February with the dramatic drop in banking shares.

Net result is he isnt so keen to spend the money he promised King Kev.

You heard owt about that Mondatoo?

He did loss a good chunk, either 400m or 600m in the times rich list, can't remember which. It isn't real money though and I'd be suprised if that was the reason he didn't want to invest more. Noone was more upset than him when England didn't qualify for Euro 08!!

He has already put in massive $$$, more than he was anticipating I believe. We'll have to see what happens this summer and maybe more importantly next summer. One thing is for sure he didn't buy it for a Chelsea type situation and I'm pleased he hasn't gone down the route of Man U and Liverpool in their financing.

Sorry, know that wasn't directed at me but I'm bored!!

Hows it going it ft event like ?

[Rooky9]

Still there, 10/201. I've completely rocked up though! I think I've had my luck already anyway!!

[bobby1]

Putting his own money in to buy shares doesn't reallly count though rooky seen as this is a personal invetsment for himself to be fair, i ment for transefers.

To be fair I don't think there are really that many chairmen that do put their own money in for transfers, and where they do, like Chelsea its only a loan - albeit in their case it'll never get repaid in full. Shepard and Hall junior were both very much in it for themselves.

Just about the best example there has been of a chairman that has made out he has spent loads of cash when he hasnt for the benefit of making a fortune from selling the club on.

On a slightly diff subject I read somewhere that Mike Ashby has lost over 600 million pounds from his share portfolio since February with the dramatic drop in banking shares.

Net result is he isnt so keen to spend the money he promised King Kev.

You heard owt about that Mondatoo?

He did loss a good chunk, either 400m or 600m in the times rich list, can't remember which. It isn't real money though and I'd be suprised if that was the reason he didn't want to invest more. Noone was more upset than him when England didn't qualify for Euro 08!!

He has already put in massive $$$, more than he was anticipating I believe. We'll have to see what happens this summer and maybe more importantly next summer. One thing is for sure he didn't buy it for a Chelsea type situation and I'm pleased he hasn't gone down the route of Man U and Liverpool in their financing.

Sorry, know that wasn't directed at me but I'm bored!!

no probs mate, I'm interested in the stuff you are bringing up.

[mondatoo]

Still there, 10/201. I've completely rocked up though! I think I've had my luck already anyway!!

GL mate stick at it

[TheChipPrince]

He's never worth £18 mil...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/7450271.stm