Moral Dilemma

[jizzemm]

I keep reading peoples answer to get an argument the other way, not to be argumentative or to go against the grain, but morally I can see where you are coming from, and I suppose the only thing you can do is walk away from the game if you don't feel comfortable, the same as I would walk away from a cash game if I was not comfortable there..

Its a good question though, and the answers I see is what i would expect from most poker players, take the money and run, its not your fault, his money is as good as everyone else's money, ones that I also sort of agree with, but do we as poker players have some sort of responsibility?? Should someone not advise him that he should be playing at 50/£1 level with that buy in..

His lack of experience is of no significance to me, we all had to learn, and cash is a cruel games sometimes, but his choice of game/level maybe should have been pointed out to him, or as you did the cardroom staff and maybe point him the right direction.

[Snatiramas]

It is indeed a dilemma. I remember my first visit to the old Luton cardroom. My first hand and my right leg is shaking uncontrollably.........please be aware I wasn't in a hand at this point...I was just shuffling. I was on the table with a Luton regular (well ex. I believe he was removed some time ago for skimming a pot alledgedly). Anyway this regular told me how badly I played each of he three hands I played but I did learn and now can play them far worse ......bless.

Personally I would have tried to talk to the guy quietly. Give him a couple of titles to read. Maybe Hold em excellence by Krieger. The girlfriend obviously does not have mateys respect so talking to her may be a waste of time other than suggesting she should leave him. If matey still will not listen......I am afraid you only have two choices. Leave or take his money if the chance arises........not an easy one if you care about people.

[boldie]

I'm sorry, but my sympathy level would be quite low here, his money is worth the same as anyone elses...

It's never the guy I feel sorry for. People can burn their money for all I care. It's the GFs in this case.

But if him spending £100 in casino sends her to tears, theres a lot more wrong with the relationship than just this...

True so give her 50£ and tell her to leave his sorry arse (and I wonder why people used to want to beat me up when i was younger..lol..my mouth was WAY too big)

[AndrewT]

At the end of the day, this guy is a grown-up and can make his own decisions.

It's not up to us to decide how someone else chooses to spend their money.

[DungBeetle]

He can spend his money how he wants. 

His girlfriend sounds like a pain in the backside imo.

[Jon MW]

He sounds like an idiot who wouldn't listen to any advice anyway - I'd say take his money and if you want to give advice to anybody give it to his girlfriend to dump him.

[kinboshi]

I posted about a similar situation at DTD.  I'm playing on the .50/1 tables, so it's not big money anyway, and I'm very happy with the table.  I've more than doubled up, and there's lots more to win.  It's all friendly, and the banter's good, etc.  Some regulars, some faces I didn't know.

A player to my right decides to donate all his chips to me with TPTK, and leaves.  In his place an older gentlemen (65+) sits down and gets out £40 (the minimum buy-in).  After two hands it's clear he has no idea what he's doing (and no, it wasn't tikay).  He is trying to check after a raise and then sticking in some chips to call when he has no idea how much they're worth or how large the bet was.  He manages to win two pots in a row somehow.  So he now has £60+ and there's much mirth at the table.

The next hand I win the pot, and manage to take £30 from him and from someone else.  It's only a matter of time before someone takes the rest of his money.

Now I know the argument is that it's his money, and it's up to him what he does with it.  I doubt it was the last of his pension and I'm sure he wasn't going to go hungry if he lost it all.  But it also wasn't nice watching him fumble around like a startled rabbit in the headlights.  Maybe it was because of his age, and it's an old-fashioned respect thing, but I didn't want him at the table any more (maybe if he was a young lad I wouldn't have cared, I don't know).  The banter round the table had stopped.  It was obvious that everyone was uneasy now, and waiting for the inevitable to happen. 

I needed to go to the loo anyway, and took the opportunity to stretch my legs and say hello to two blonde veterans - Tikay and Chili who were on a DC table.

By the time I got back, the gentleman had gone.  He'd done his stack and left the building.  Thankfully he didn't bother reloading.  I must admit, I didn't feel guilty taking his money, but I just felt awkward and could sympathise with him - he'd obviously seen poker on telly or somewhere and fancied a game to learn the ropes.  He didn't really get either of those things - and I'm sure he didn't enjoy his time at the table.  He didn't even get to spend some time with a famous TV star like Compo.

After he'd gone, the table got back to how it was before, and everyone was visibly more relaxed.

[Compo]

Thanks all for your replies.  I too would take advantage of anyone drunk at the table (or more likely donk of my cash to them) but this was soooooooo different. he wasnt a bad player, he just didnt know how to play or what to do. I wish I had had the balls to talk to him but I suppose I was afraid of the reaction of everyone else at the table, coward that I am.

For all you that would take his money without a second thought  remember .........you can shear a sheep many times. You can only kill it once

[Grier78]

If I am playing cash I want to take money off people who have more money than sense, regular losers who have good jobs and don't mind giving me a share. However, I would never want to be part of someone making themselves destitute, sure they can always go to the bookies or lose their money on the slots, but I don't want to be a part of it.

In this example you don't know enough to make the assumption that he can't afford to lose his money, but the action you took cost you nothing and was the action of a considerate human being.

Casinos also have to look after their customers, a regular loser may drop £100 every weekend, but if they go on tilt and try to win all their money back they could drop far more than they could afford to lose and never be seen in the casino again, the casino then loses their steady profit.

You can't make peoples minds up for them, but you can offer genuine advice and then its up to them to take it or not.

[Claw75]

He sounds like an idiot who wouldn't listen to any advice anyway - I'd say take his money and if you want to give advice to anybody give it to his girlfriend to dump him.

sounds about right.  It seems to me that he's got to learn the hard way - if he won't listen to his girlfriend it's unlikely that he's going to listen to anyone else.  There are undoubtedly many more such players logging in to online poker sites from the comfort of their own homes night after night donating left right and centre - maybe seeing it 'in the flesh' pricks at the conscience a bit.  At the end of the day, every penny won in poker has come from someone else's pocket.

[cia260895]

if you were playing online and there was someone playing who clearly didnt have a clue what they were doing would you still sit there and take their money? if the answer is yes then surely the same should apply to a live game.

[kinboshi]

if you were playing online and there was someone playing who clearly didnt have a clue what they were doing would you still sit there and take their money? if the answer is yes then surely the same should apply to a live game.

People also download music illegally online, but wouldn't even consider stealing a CD from a shop.

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: Compo

I believe it is everyones social responsibility to care for others who are clearly in need of help

Man, this isn't any sort of dilemma. There are people starving to death all over the world. If this is how you feel then take his money and give it to them. A much needed dose of reality for a guy who lives a luxury life in the UK should not be seen as a worthy charity case.

[jizzemm]

if you were playing online and there was someone playing who clearly didnt have a clue what they were doing would you still sit there and take their money? if the answer is yes then surely the same should apply to a live game.

People also download music illegally online, but wouldn't even consider stealing a CD from a shop.

OOO thats a good reply. . .

[boldie]

Posted by: Compo

I believe it is everyones social responsibility to care for others who are clearly in need of help

Man, this isn't any sort of dilemma. There are people starving to death all over the world. If this is how you feel then take his money and give it to them. A much needed dose of reality for a guy who lives a luxury life in the UK should not be seen as a worthy charity case.

I take it you joined the "I'm assuming" club?