spitting feathers

[Grier78]

The main flaw with pub poker is that there is no risk as there is no buy-in. You only need a couple of idiots to keep banging their chips in to ruin the game for everyone, the main point about pub poker is that its supposed to be fun, often its anything but.

[TEX FITZ]

just read through this thread and lol'd at every comment. My last post was a redtooth game and everything on this thread has happened at my games, i don't run the games i just sit and play after previous arguments ; trying to explain split pots because the kicker is on the board ( A,7 v A,6 all-ins ) 
tried to explain the dead dealer rule situation and lost. Didn't even attempt to explain table balancing (6,3)
my GF has qualified to play the regional finals at the Circus Newcastle 30th Nov so she's hoping it will be run better than the local games, maybe see some Blondes there, i'm going for the free buffet

[kinboshi]

They had a pub poker league final at DTD earlier this year and there was a funny situation at the cash game.  One of the pub-league players (who kept on announcing that he was raising 300 or 500 when he meant £3 or £5) was explaining how good a player he was and generally being a bit of an arse. 

A young lad sat at the table, and put his MP3 player on.  I think he only put it in one ear though, probably so he could still hear the table.  The arsey fella soon asked the dealer if the player was allowed to have the MP3 player on, and the dealer said it was fine.  So the arsey fella immediately asked the young lad what he was listening to and that he was bang out of order because he could be getting secret messages about other players' hands.  Others at the table thought this was quite amusing, but he continued to harass the young lad and generally talk bollocks.  

He took umbrage when a player asked to see his second hole card at a showdown, and didn't understand why he had to show both cards to claim the pot. Then a few minutes later he folded to a river bet and the other player slid his cards into the muck after revealing one of his cards.  The arsey fella grabbed his other card and flipped it over and when he was told this was very wrong, he couldn't see the difference between that situation and his earlier.

After fifteen minutes myself and another player at the table were bidding to borrow the MP3 player off the young lad so we didn't have to listen to the arsey gobshite.  Fortunately, he disposed of a couple of buy-ins and left the table soon after and we could go back to enjoying ourselves.  I think if he'd been there for any longer something would have been done and he might have been thrown out for his behaviour.

I'd guess he's not typical of pub poker players, but you only need one like that in a game that's not being well run under rules that resemble common sense, to make it a disaster.  So as far as pub poker goes, for that reason, I'm out.

[Cf]

This is why TDA/RR exist, to stop this sort of thing happening.

With that raise rule for example, it's almost like you're playing a FL/NL hybrid. They say it's easier for beginners, but I don't really see how. How is "your raise must at least equal the size of the previous raise" hard to follow. The bigger issue though is these beginners will start to think these are the actual rules of the game, and when they play elsewhere it will cause problems.

House rules are fine (eg, in my home game i have removed a players right to request to see cards at showdown, unless there is suspicion of collusion), but they should be a) minor changes, and b) well advertised to new players before the game begins.

There should also be a copy of the rules on hand.

[Laxie]

I helped the owner of a local pub start a weekly Hold Em tourney at his place.  He hadn't a clue and left all rulings up to me, so I went based on the TDA rules as best I could.  When in doubt, I kept the doubt to myself and made as fair a call as I could on the night.  Then I'd come home and double check what I'd done was correct or post here for confirmation.  Regardless of right or wrong, I'd bring in a print out to show everyone the following week.  Only once did I have to return with apologies as it was one of those 'grey area' rules and I was only half right.  In the end, it stopped being fun for me because I had to act as the poker police all night and was sure to piss off at least one person each week...if not more.  They had 'different' rules at their other pub games (i.e. bully the owner long and loud enough to get your way).  "This isn't Vegas" was another favourite line.  The louder a regular shouted, the more the owner would doubt my ruling.  At one point, I printed out all of the rules for him and he never bothered to look at them.  "Never got around to it.  Besides, you're here so I don't need to."  That's when I stopped going.  Don't mind helping out, but I got no back up during disputes and refused to put up with further abuse.     

I've since gone back now and then, but don't get stuck in when trouble starts unless I'm involved in the hand.  I've told the pub owner it's his house and his job to police it.  They regularly act out of turn, but I say nothing.  They often only show 1 card at showdown if they think it's enough to win the pot.  If I'm in the hand and I've not played with them for a while, I'll ask to see the other card.  I like to know what rubbish they played with and keep in mind their betting patterns, but I don't explain my reasons as I just quote the rule and the rest have learned to back me up a bit.   

Pub poker is a pain in the backside to be sure (especially when you include the village idiot drunks), but if they're taught the proper way from the get go, it's less painful and you might even have a bit of fun.

[Cf]

Pub poker is a pain in the backside to be sure (especially when you include the village idiot drunks), but if they're taught the proper way from the get go, it's less painful and you might even have a bit of fun.

This is the key point. It also ties in to when they said "this isn't vegas". Yes, it's a friendly game, but the whole point of having rules that should be strictly enforced is to make sure it remains a friendly game. When people start being lax with the rules it leads to all kinds of arguments and suddenly it's not fun anymore.

[TEX FITZ]

I helped the owner of a local pub start a weekly Hold Em tourney at his place.

ditto, me and GF ran tournys for local

When in doubt, I kept the doubt to myself and made as fair a call as I could on the night.  Then I'd come home and double check what I'd done was correct or post here for confirmation.

ditto (try explaining split pots)

bully the owner long and loud enough to get your way).  "This isn't Vegas" was another favourite line.

ditto

Don't mind helping out, but I got no back up during disputes and refused to put up with further abuse.

ditto

I've since gone back now and then, but don't get stuck in when trouble starts unless I'm involved in the hand.

ditto, but then if i was involved in the hand the rules had changed (coz we were the outsiders against the regulars)

NEVER BEEN BACK