dwain chambers should he be allowed to run or not ?

[kinboshi]

I'm not sure about this now, although morally he is guilty, legally Chambers has "done his time".

If it was such a bad offense surely he would have been given more"time" and not now be eligible for selection.

You cheat (and get caught) as a British athlete you know the rules.   I'm trying to think of a situation that's analogous, and all I can think of is what happens to football hooligans who serve a custodial sentence but even after their release they are banned from all football stadia for life.

Here's another question.  Does this photo fill you with pride or loathing?

I understand what you are saying, but why was he not given a longer sentence ?

Different bodies - IAAF and the BOA.  The IAAF gave him the 2-year ban, the BOA the lifetime ban from the Olympics.

I think the IAAF should have given him a longer ban.

[LLevan]

I'm not sure about this now, although morally he is guilty, legally Chambers has "done his time".

If it was such a bad offense surely he would have been given more"time" and not now be eligible for selection.

You cheat (and get caught) as a British athlete you know the rules.   I'm trying to think of a situation that's analogous, and all I can think of is what happens to football hooligans who serve a custodial sentence but even after their release they are banned from all football stadia for life.

Here's another question.  Does this photo fill you with pride or loathing?

I understand what you are saying, but why was he not given a longer sentence ?

The only sentence is a 2 year ban hence my point about get caught in Beijing, serve your ban and then compete in London in 2012 - makes a mockery of the rules IMO. Don't fofget theres always the chance that you wont get caught in Beijing too.

[Maxriddles]

I'm not sure about this now, although morally he is guilty, legally Chambers has "done his time".

If it was such a bad offense surely he would have been given more"time" and not now be eligible for selection.

You cheat (and get caught) as a British athlete you know the rules.   I'm trying to think of a situation that's analogous, and all I can think of is what happens to football hooligans who serve a custodial sentence but even after their release they are banned from all football stadia for life.

Here's another question.  Does this photo fill you with pride or loathing?













Neither, it fills me with disappointment that such a talented athlete decided to feck it all up by trying to take a short cut to the top when he probably could have got to the same level without the drugs with hard work and patience.

Personally I think he has done his time and should not be restricted in plying his trade, a two year ban from all competition was his punishment, time served.
The by law only works if the team is selected, Dwain Chambers qualified and is eligible to compete under IOC rules.

I will point out I think his cheating in the first place was a loathsome act but he should not be punished forever.

Neither, it fills me with disappointment that such a talented athlete decided to feck it all up by trying to take a short cut to the top when he probably could have got to the same level without the drugs with hard work and patience.

Personally I think he has done his time and should not be restricted in plying his trade, a two year ban from all competition was his punishment, time served.
The by law only works if the team is selected, Dwain Chambers qualified and is eligible to compete under IOC rules.

I will point out I think his cheating in the first place was a loathsome act but he should not be punished forever.

[Longy]

No, though i base on the only way the sport will make the drug cheat stop is by imposing the harshest fine possible, ie life time bans.

Saying everyone is on it, is not a positive way to look at it. If you allow ppl to take what they like, you will have anarchy. These athletes will happily risk their own lives on drugs to be successful.

[kinboshi]

I'm not sure about this now, although morally he is guilty, legally Chambers has "done his time".

If it was such a bad offense surely he would have been given more"time" and not now be eligible for selection.

You cheat (and get caught) as a British athlete you know the rules.   I'm trying to think of a situation that's analogous, and all I can think of is what happens to football hooligans who serve a custodial sentence but even after their release they are banned from all football stadia for life.

Here's another question.  Does this photo fill you with pride or loathing?

Neither, it fills me with disappointment that such a talented athlete decided to feck it all up by trying to take a short cut to the top when he probably could have got to the same level without the drugs with hard work and patience.

Personally I think he has done his time and should not be restricted in plying his trade, a two year ban from all competition was his punishment, time served.
The by law only works if the team is selected, Dwain Chambers qualified and is eligible to compete under IOC rules.

I will point out I think his cheating in the first place was a loathsome act but he should not be punished forever.

He's not banned from plying his trade.  He can still earn money (and lots of it) in IAAF events.  He can earn more for one meet than many hard-working, honest people earn in a year.

He should not however be given the privilege of representing his country at the Olympics.  Neither should he take the place off a more deserving athlete.  

Let's just say he does get into the GB team.  Should he be allowed to run in the 4x100m team?  Would you be happy with him in the team if you were one of the other runners?  

[Rooky9]

No question for me, let him run. The laws on drugs cheats should be consistant across competing countires for me.

Everyone makes mistakes in life, if thats the worst he ever makes he'll be doing a lot better than many others who get second chances. It may even make him a better athlete and a better person now its done. I don't think the fact he's the only British sprinter looking half decent at the moment should influence the choice though -but it must be tempting, britsh sprinting has gone from top of the world (okay 2nd and getting lucky once) to probably just top 8 in 4 years.

[kinboshi]

Oh and a positive story about the Olympics.  A friend of mine, Helen Clitheroe qualified for the Olympics at the weekend whilst breaking a British record in the 3000m steeplechase.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7505640.stm

She works bloody hard, and has devoted her life to training and competing.  No short cuts, no cheating, and nowhere near the rewards that Chambers has got from him athletics.

[kinboshi]

No question for me, let him run. The laws on drugs cheats should be consistant across competing countires for me.

Everyone makes mistakes in life, if thats the worst he ever makes he'll be doing a lot better than many others who get second chances. It may even make him a better athlete and a better person now its done. I don't think the fact he's the only British sprinter looking half decent at the moment should influence the choice though -but it must be tempting, britsh sprinting has gone from top of the world (okay 2nd and getting lucky once) to probably just top 8 in 4 years.

So because we don't have anyone who looks like making the final we should change the rules?  That's crazy logic.

[Rooky9]

No question for me, let him run. The laws on drugs cheats should be consistant across competing countires for me.

Everyone makes mistakes in life, if thats the worst he ever makes he'll be doing a lot better than many others who get second chances. It may even make him a better athlete and a better person now its done. I don't think the fact he's the only British sprinter looking half decent at the moment should influence the choice though -but it must be tempting, britsh sprinting has gone from top of the world (okay 2nd and getting lucky once) to probably just top 8 in 4 years.

So because we don't have anyone who looks like making the final we should change the rules?  That's crazy logic.

No, I'm saying we shouldnt do it because of that - but I can see the motivation for that. Olympic sports are not good value for money at the moment imo.

[kinboshi]

No question for me, let him run. The laws on drugs cheats should be consistant across competing countires for me.

Everyone makes mistakes in life, if thats the worst he ever makes he'll be doing a lot better than many others who get second chances. It may even make him a better athlete and a better person now its done. I don't think the fact he's the only British sprinter looking half decent at the moment should influence the choice though -but it must be tempting, britsh sprinting has gone from top of the world (okay 2nd and getting lucky once) to probably just top 8 in 4 years.

So because we don't have anyone who looks like making the final we should change the rules?  That's crazy logic.

No, I'm saying we shouldnt do it because of that - but I can see the motivation for that. Olympic sports are not good value for money at the moment imo.

Sorry, I mis-read your post.  I agree that he definitely shouldn't be allowed back in the GB Olympic team for any reason.

[Rooky9]

Oh and a positive story about the Olympics.  A friend of mine, Helen Clitheroe qualified for the Olympics at the weekend whilst breaking a British record in the 3000m steeplechase.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7505640.stm

She works bloody hard, and has devoted her life to training and competing.  No short cuts, no cheating, and nowhere near the rewards that Chambers has got from him athletics.

But when she gets to being in the top few in the world in that field then she might get the rewards that he did (though she won't because she's a woman, but relatively speaking). He was a top runner before drugs, is and always has been a dedicated athlete, you can see that from looking at him.

[Rooky9]

No question for me, let him run. The laws on drugs cheats should be consistant across competing countires for me.

Everyone makes mistakes in life, if thats the worst he ever makes he'll be doing a lot better than many others who get second chances. It may even make him a better athlete and a better person now its done. I don't think the fact he's the only British sprinter looking half decent at the moment should influence the choice though -but it must be tempting, britsh sprinting has gone from top of the world (okay 2nd and getting lucky once) to probably just top 8 in 4 years.

So because we don't have anyone who looks like making the final we should change the rules?  That's crazy logic.

No, I'm saying we shouldnt do it because of that - but I can see the motivation for that. Olympic sports are not good value for money at the moment imo.

Sorry, I mis-read your post.  I agree that he definitely should be allowed back in the GB Olympic team.

FYP! Now we agree!

Will be interesting come Thursday either way. My gut feeling is that he won't be successful anyway.

[Maxriddles]

I'm not sure about this now, although morally he is guilty, legally Chambers has "done his time".

If it was such a bad offense surely he would have been given more"time" and not now be eligible for selection.

You cheat (and get caught) as a British athlete you know the rules.   I'm trying to think of a situation that's analogous, and all I can think of is what happens to football hooligans who serve a custodial sentence but even after their release they are banned from all football stadia for life.

Here's another question.  Does this photo fill you with pride or loathing?

Neither, it fills me with disappointment that such a talented athlete decided to feck it all up by trying to take a short cut to the top when he probably could have got to the same level without the drugs with hard work and patience.

Personally I think he has done his time and should not be restricted in plying his trade, a two year ban from all competition was his punishment, time served.
The by law only works if the team is selected, Dwain Chambers qualified and is eligible to compete under IOC rules.

I will point out I think his cheating in the first place was a loathsome act but he should not be punished forever.

He's not banned from plying his trade.  He can still earn money (and lots of it) in IAAF events.  He can earn more for one meet than many hard-working, honest people earn in a year.

He should not however be given the privilege of representing his country at the Olympics.  Neither should he take the place off a more deserving athlete. 

Let's just say he does get into the GB team.  Should he be allowed to run in the 4x100m team?  Would you be happy with him in the team if you were one of the other runners? 

I would expect his legal team to argue that preventing him from competing is a restriction of his earnings potential. If he were to medal at the Olympics (unlikely I know) would his earnings potential increase?

As for the whether I would want him in the team if I was one of the relay team, of course I wouldn't, if I was one of the guys who lost their medal I'd be full of loathing for him. I feel for those who have lost out to him in the past, they have seen their careers and earnings suffer because he cheated to beat them, maybe they should consider seeking advice on the chances of a successful legal action against him for their losses.

[The Baron]

Let him race but I'd rather he didn't win.

[kinboshi]

Let him race but I'd rather he didn't win.

But why let him in the Olympic team at all?

This I don't understand. 

If he's in the Olympic team, the logic should extend that he's in the 4x100m team, and if you're happy for him to represent GB in the team you'd also be happy with him carrying out the flag for the opening ceremony?

He knew the rules before he broke them.  He knew the BOA penalty before he cheated.  Why let him in?  I think I must be missing something.