Poker - it's a messy business.....

[ShatnerPants]

pokernews is owned by tony g (so pokernews did in effect put her in as part of the backing was that she was to wear pokernews apparel).

TM isnt offering tony g or pokernews any % of the extra bunce she got paid by UB. Pokernews wont take advertising or anything from UB after the recent scandals on a moral stance. For TM to then put the ub logo next to the pokernews logo hass pissed tony g off. For tony to say he was glad she got knocked out when he is getting a large % of her winnings shows just how pissed off he is.

If TM had gone to tony and said look UB have offered me $x to wear their logo and obviously that will be split with you as well as you own x% of me for this event then the discussion may have been different. Tony is a nice guy and very astute businessman away from the table and he wouldve said stars/tilt or whoever would match that deal (no way could UB have outbid stars or FT) and he would have no doubt brokered a better deal for TM and looked after the interest of both parties. Who is gonna be able to do a better deal for a young naive (read stupid) girl having the tournament of her life? In one corner we have one of the biggest names in poker with more contacts than you can imagine, in the other corner we have a talent agent (not a poker agent) with very few contacts who has steered his/her client to the only site out there who have been confirmed as cheats.

Thanks for that.  It makes more sense now.

Sod the talent agent, you'd have thought TM has been around the block enough to know that A) UB are cheats B) 'Stars do the best deals.

But like she said.  It was her choice.  One she will regret hugely.

[The Camel]

The idea that someone who buys a share in a player in a tournament should get a pro rata share of any sponsorship money earned is beyond ridiculous.

[MANTIS01]

No it isn't. If you "earn" money from a tournament you have but a % share in, then you have but a % share of that money. That is not beyond ridiculous. Open to interpretation maybe, but not beyond ridiculous. The government earning a % of tips given to dealers is an example of something that is beyond ridiculous.

[ariston]

I am not saying they should get a % of future sponsorship but imo If someone says heres a million quid to wear this logo at the final table ( a final table of a competition I wouldn't have been playing if you hadn't bought me in) I would give you half of that as well as half my winnings.

[Irishdenis]

Some years back I had a percentage of Joe Grech when he was runner up in the world pot limit in Dublin.  Before the final started, I spoke to lots of folks about giving Joe a deal to wear their shirt.  Not once did I think that I was entitled to anything from that deal. What I was trying to do was help him as much as I could. After all I was profiting from his success in the event.  It does cement one thought in that you should only do deals with friends who you are happy to see succeed.

If you were to go down the line of having an interest in sponsorship deals just because someone put you into the event then where would it end...Your teacher gets a percentage of your future earnings.  Your parents and even the guy who drove you to the event.....sorry pushed it a bit to far

[ariston]

Im not in a position to be the staker I have the one being staked in these events. Although it has never actually been said or spoke about before if a friend had put me in and I then got a bonus bung I would split that with my friend as well as they were kind enough to put me in. If someone had bought 5%/ 10% or something that would be different but if someone had put up the whole buyin I would think they are entitled to a share of the extra booty as well. Maybe I believe in friendship more than money though.

[Irishdenis]

Hi Ariston,

I understand and applaud your position.  However your backer cannot just expect a return without having it agreed earlier.  To be honest this is a new area for everyone. I can see a time when their will be a standard contract for sites and promoters when they sponsor players. When we do it on a personal level it is different. I wonder how Neil Channing feels about this. Does he factor in a return on sponsorship deals when he backs players.  If someone is backing a player and acting as his or her manager then they can expect different returns.  What happens if you swap a percentage with someone. If they get the opportunity during the event to wear a shirt for a site should you get a return on that....I think not. 

[ariston]

Hi Ariston,

I understand and applaud your position.  However your backer cannot just expect a return without having it agreed earlier.  To be honest this is a new area for everyone. I can see a time when their will be a standard contract for sites and promoters when they sponsor players. When we do it on a personal level it is different. I wonder how Neil Channing feels about this. Does he factor in a return on sponsorship deals when he backs players.  If someone is backing a player and acting as his or her manager then they can expect different returns.  What happens if you swap a percentage with someone. If they get the opportunity during the event to wear a shirt for a site should you get a return on that....I think not. 

I would class that as different tbh dennis. If I swapped 10% with you or even sold you 10% of me at spot or something then I wouldnt say you were entitled to a % of any extra bunce I got as I was already playing the event. If however you stuck me in as I wasnt going to be playing I would class any extra bunce into the deal because without you I wouldnt have been in a position to get that extra bunce. Maybe its a moral thing but I think thats the stance I would take. I am sure Neils players would return a share of any extra bunce they got and I am certain Neil is astute enough to have already mentioned this to his players.

[kinboshi]

Going back to the 'would you wear UB gear for a deal?' question - if UB are willing to offer you £200,000 (arbitrary figure), isn't it likely that someone else (e.g. PokerStars or FullTilt) would be willing to offer you something close to that, if not the same amount?

Sure the integrity question isn't take the dirty money or nothing, it's take the dirty money or take virtually the same elsewhere? 

[MANTIS01]

You are sitting on £32k during Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. You use your last lifeline to phone a friend cos you don't have a clue. He knows the answer and you win another 32k. There's nothing in writing, no contract, no verbal agreement etc....but not giving the guy who helped you anything still makes you a dog imo.

[ariston]

think most poker players would give the mate who helped them a drink out of any extra money they won. Having said that if my mate got me to 64 and I was only half sure on the next answer i would be guessing as I am winning 61k and only losing 32k so its not certain i would end up with any extra dough anyway

[quantify]

i had a similar situation in the ept final in ireland i was put in by william hill in a round about way without ant contractual obligations, pokerstars wanted me to wear their logo as i was sat next to roland in his full tilt gear............

they offered me a seat in copenhagen, a seat dortmund, a seat in the grand final in monte carlo..............................worth20,000 euro ,plus travel flights  etc worth 4000 euro

i rang hills up and talked them through the situation and they werent best pleased so i said can you do something for the coverage you will get on the final table , they said no at first , then said we will be able to get you one seat somewhere (turned out to b copenhagen were i busted 4 tables out() worth 5000euro no expenses.

i turned the pokerstars dealdown for a few reasons
1. ididnt want to bok myself ............stupid in the extreme
2,  didnt want to let hills down....................i felt obligatd to wear their colours even though i didnt need to cos thy had pulled a few favours to get me in the tourney , i had won a satellite (freeroll)for the cpc and because my wife was ill we couldnt go , so they canx it and entered me for this last minute as one of their players dropped out...........



everybody thought i was a clown for turning down pokerstars deal and in hindsight they were right , but for some reason i cudnt do it, wat a plumb