TT OOP to UTG raise

[T_Mar]

Stars 20k GTD, Blinds 300/600/50

UTG (~11k) opens to 3000 (seemed to play straight forward game so far, not sure what the x5 raise means??)

All fold to me in the SB with ~17k and 

Whats my best play here and plan for the flop please (if i call)??

A reraise basically puts him in which seems a little spewy, but calling the raise OOP also seems bad with loads of flops I'm going to hate.  Surely I'm not folding??

How does this change if he makes smaller raise (3-3.5x)??

So basically no clue how to play this hand... All advice appreciated... ta


 

[Rookie (Rodney)]

shove... if he makes a smaller raise, errr... shove

[boldie]

shove... if he makes a smaller raise, errr... shove

just about my thoughts as well...calling here is definitely not an option.

[EvilPie]

As above. Both of you are pot committed (unless you're both very bad) so the chips are going in.

I'd say it's a straight forward push.

[gribbo]

Hi,    For me this is a fold preflop, i def think ur opponent has a jj, qq hand which has you dominated, the fact that he is a straightforward player, along with his 5x raise the guy is wanting to get his money in on the flop with a strong hand. I think the best u can hope for here is a ak/aq hand. I would only call a all in raise from a short stack here or call a raise from someone who is one one of the chip leaders or similar stack as you had the value of flopping a set and doubling up through them.

Just my opinion think 10 10 is a very marginal hand esp in this situation and dont see point of riskin half ur stack on what could be at best a coinflip? How did the hand play out anyway?

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: gribbo

Just my opinion think 10 10 is a very marginal hand esp in this situation and dont see point of riskin half ur stack on what could be at best a coinflip?

Is it really a marginal hand/situation? There are 169 possible starting hands and you are behind to just J-J, Q-Q, K-K and A-A. There is not much ahead of you right now and an awful lot behind you. I would not consider the 5th best starting hand in the game to be marginal. If we add to the equation his 5x the blind over-raise I think it's safe to discount A-A, K-K and most probably Q-Q. Therefore if he doesn't have Jacks, which he doesn't, we have him beat. While it is true he may have overcards this still makes him behind. Most importantly he still has to call an all-in, which he may not. Also you have your man outchipped which is nice.

So an alternative and altogether more positive take on the situation is that UTG has overbet because he desperately wants to take the blinds and antes with his small to middling pair like 8-8 or 9-9. We are the ones that dominate him and we are lucky to be able to push with the 5th best hand in poker without risking our tournament. Don't forget once we push it's not us deciding to flip it's him. But anyway this isn't marginal.

[gribbo]

Hi i totally know what u mean Mantis about the strength of TT etc, i still feel that this hand is still very marginal for several reasons. After postin the BB the hero has 30 BB and has a good chip stack that allows him some flexibility in his play ie re stealing against bigger stacks etc. For the hero to make this call and lose he would be left with 10bb and in a bad position.

I still feel that everything about the opponents hand reeks superstrength as i play a lot of low limit games a lot of these playes base their raise on the strength of their hand and aswell as the raise being UTG i cant see the villian raising 88, 99 here imo. At the very best the hero is flipping for 2/3rds of his stack in a spot where it is not necessary and im sure he could/did fold and wait for a better spot.

Just my opinion maybe i am too tight, would like to know the outcome of the hand?

[T_Mar]

Thanks for reponses - I did shove seeing his overbet as weakness and not wanting to see a flop OOP, not that it matters but he showed QQ

The fact I had 10bb left if I was wrong made it easier

[doubleup]

Is it really a marginal hand/situation? There are 169 possible starting hands and you are behind to just J-J, Q-Q, K-K and A-A. 

Please stop saying this or similar in your posts.

[MANTIS01]

Is it really a marginal hand/situation? There are 169 possible starting hands and you are behind to just J-J, Q-Q, K-K and A-A. 

Please stop saying this or similar in your posts.

But new players will love it. By the way new players that's a true statement!

[AlexMartin]

ugh, dont hate folding.

[doubleup]

Is it really a marginal hand/situation? There are 169 possible starting hands and you are behind to just J-J, Q-Q, K-K and A-A. 

Please stop saying this or similar in your posts.

But new players will love it. By the way new players that's a true statement!

To imply that the odds against TT being dominated are 50-1 is idiotic and helps no one.

[snoopy1239]

Tricky one. The key here is that you had him down as a straight forward player, which possibly means you're coin flipping at best. Maybe nines, but I'm not adverse to a fold here. Toss a coin.

Definitely can't smooth call.

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: doubleup

To imply that the odds against TT being dominated are 50-1 is idiotic and helps no one.

I did not imply those odds. I categorically discounted A-A and K-K and said Q-Q was unlikely. So I implied the odds were much greater.

gribbo's opinion was that we are likely dominated and my opinion was that we are not likely dominated. What was you opinion again? If you don't post one but just seek to mock other opinion you are Dubai. You have not contributed anything helpful to this discussion yourself by the way. You have just waited until the result was posted and then chastised my comments in retrospect. This undoubtedly takes great skill. You are coming across as quite a grumpy doubleup at present and a little bit sour. If you are running bad I am sorry.

On this occasion gribbo was spot on in his analysis and fair play to him. He says he plays a lot of low limit games and people adjust their raise size in accordance with hand strength. I think this is an easy strat to twigg if you are familiar with it. I am clearly not so familar with it.

[Rupert]

meh im all in.

i think you can somewhat discount AA and KK from his range and i think its slightly more likely he has AT-AK here.  imagine his thought process is "OMG PROTECT MY HAND" or something dumb.  plus you might have fold equity if he tries to hero fold queens or whatever.