Our Troops - My Thoughts

[Geo the Sarge]

The second scenario was when I was sixteen. Maybe 3 or 4 months before I had suffered another beating at the hands of my father. I and a couple of other lads had gone scrumping, taking apples from the trees in the back gardens in an area of Edinburgh conveniently called Orchard Brae, behind the Western general hospital. To keep it simple, we got caught, in those days it was no great crime, the beat bobby (remember them?) caught you, clipped you round the lug and sent you off with the cries of “I’ll tell your faither next time I see him” the beat Bobby generally knew everyone and always had an ear to the ground and also almost always knew who was up to what and who had done what, even if he couldn’t prove it he’d let you know he knew. We’d all had this happen, the slap round the lug, the threat of telling your father, rarely would the threat be carried out for such a petty thing. Unfortunately for me, not this time. My father returned from the pub a couple of nights later and called me from my sleep. Bleary eyed, I wandered through to the living room, no concerns, I’d been a good boy that day, I think, had I, did I do anything today, nope, are you sure? All this going through my head as the anxiety built up as I approached the living room. I knew by his tone he was angry but for the life of me could not think of anything I’d done that day. As I entered the room I received a huge slap around the back of the head, that was it, into the corner again, another beating. “You thieving little git, I’ll give ye choring (stealing) apples.” Obviously he had met the Bobby and I’d been shopped off. More that likely the Bobby had stopped of for a swift half as he usually did during an evening stag and had probably mentioned to my father he had slapped my lug for scrumping, I suspect not realising the beating he had set me up for.

Anyway, this evening in question there was a knock at the door and I answered. A stranger stood there enquiring “George Dickson?” yes that’s me. “No” he said with a chortle, “I think I’m looking for your father.” I called my father to the door and on seeing the man stepped forward and shook his hand, it appears this was an old friend of his that was in the area and had decided to look him up.

[Geo the Sarge]

They soon settled down and started chatting about their old school days and there times growing up in Wallyford, a smallish former mining village on the outskirts of Edinburgh (Turney may recognise the name as until a few years ago they had quite a famous greyhound track there, almost as popular as the Powderhall track was in Edinburgh in these days) They then proceeded to retell a story of how they had been caught by the local Bobby whilst out scrumping in the Wallyford/Musselburgh area. My heart sank as they sat there hysterical with laughter as they described the slap round the lug, the stinging in the ear and the fear that the Bobby might indeed tell their fathers.

My father then turns to me and says “you should have seen him (his mate) he was crying all the way up the road, not cos the Bobby had slapped him but because of the hiding he knew he would get if his father had found out.” There was no reference to my own misdemeanour a couple of months beforehand, and it was as if he was saying “his father would have beat him, mines wouldn’t” or was it because he didn’t fear his father when he was a youngster, he was a big lad. Or was it because my grandfather was a better father to him and would never have meted out such a punishment for an offence like this.

Either way, I cracked, I leapt at my father and started punching and kicking, he was seated, it took him a wee bit of time to restrain me but that wee bit of time was glorious to me, it was my chance of giving something back that he had given me all too often. Of course, I came off worse and was banished to my room with the threat of “I’ll deal with you later.” He never got the chance……….early next morning I left the house for good, packed a couple of things in a carrier bag and went off. I knew a wee place, a set of caves down by Gypsy Brae near the shore at Granton and settled myself there for a few days before being taken in by my mate’s uncle. The caves were a place I visited often, I was a constant runaway, sometimes after a beating, sometimes just to get away from it all, if I get through the topics I want to in this thread I may even have time to add a few tales of my escapades “on the run”.

Occasionally I still do it, not so much run away but I’ll pack a rucksack and walk up to the Pentland Hills here in Edinburgh which are only a 10 minute walk from my house and settle in a wood for a night or 2, just to reflect when times get tough. I did it when I went to the APAT in Cardiff, I qualified in Edinburgh and had enuff cash for flights and food but would have been cutting it fine for accommodation expenses, so I packed my rucksack with sleeping bag and bivvy and my home for the weekend was in the wooded area to the side of the Casino at the edge of the car park, I’ve never slept so well in ages. I had three changes of clothing and each morning I rose, packed my rucksack and went into the toilets at the bowling alley in the Red Dragon Centre, stripped to my drawers and had an all over body wash with my trusty flannel (steady ladies,) washed my hair in the sink and then used the hand dryer and a towel to dry off it was great and for me it was easy, I’ve done it almost all my life..

My father probably expected me to show up after a few days but I didn’t return. It was shortly after this that I joined the Army and into a different world of bullying…………….

[Claw75]

amazingly well written stuff yet again Geo.  Must be hard for you to write, yet it's conjured up such lifelike images.  Brought tears to my eyes reading about your parents' treatment of you all - I've never so much as smacked my daughter, I just couldn't, and find it so hard to fathom how anyone could do that to their children.

[Geo the Sarge]

I joined the Army in 1978 and went to the training depot at Penicuik not far from Edinburgh, I spent 23 years in the Army and have absolutely no regrets. I had bad times, I had good times. Unfortunately not everyone who joins the Army can say the same. The cases of possible Army bullying highlighted in recent years are the various incidents at Deepcut where several young soldiers have seemed to have taken their own lives. I don’t think it right for me to comment, not enough is known, nothing has been proven as yet and details have been very limited although it is thought that there is evidence to suggest that there are doubts as to whether 3 of them were suicides, this takes it way beyond bullying and that is why I feel I can’t go there but my heart goes out to the families and I dearly hope that the truth is discovered.

Is there bullying in the Army? Yes, definitely, it has always been there. I believe there are different  types of bullying, not levels, as I said before bullying is bullying. The most common is from your peers. It’s the ganging up on the weaker individual, the guy who can’t run as fast as the rest of the squad. It’s the guy who can’t take in the lessons being taught as quickly as others. It’s the guy who’s hygiene and tidiness is not as sharp as the rest. The guy that is holding the rest up. This is most common during training. An example:

Jonny has passed his tests and has been accepted into a training regiment. Jonny is a clever lad and passed all the tests easily. Jonny interviewed well and passed all other criteria regards health, crime etc. Jonny only just passed the fitness test during recruit selection. The Army careers officer takes all this into consideration before deciding whether Jonny can be selected to join the Army. Jonnys only weakness is his fitness, however taking all into account and the fact that Jonny will receive sufficient fitness training during his recruit stages he allows him to take his place at a training depot.

Jonny begins the training and at first copes well with the lower level fitness at the beginning of his training. Jonny excels in the weapon lesson, the map reading, the first aid etc. Jonny begins to struggle with the fitness, we are now 6 or 7 weeks into training and we are running as squads, the squad needs to travel 8 miles within a certain time and Jonny is holding them up. Jonny’s section are in competition with the other sections of his training platoon for the best section prize, Jonny is preventing them reaching there goal………………….get the picture. 

It’s the last task in the competition and it’s all to play for. Jonny’s section currently lead the competition but there’s only a couple of points between them and 2 section. 2 section don’t have a Jonny. In this scenario I have seen two things happen. Jonny picks up a mysterious injury the night before and can’t compete………….no he doesn’t, his section give him a beating and ensures he cannot take part next day. The other scenario is that Jonny does compete, tries his heart out but unfortunately lags behind. 2 section win by a few seconds and take the title, Jonny takes a beating, it’s his fault, if he had kept up we would have won it. If Jonny had kept up with the pace however and they still lost Jonny doesn’t get beaten, they are all responsible, they aint gonna beat themselves. It happens. However consider this……….

[Geo the Sarge]

Jonny has got through all that and Jonny is now with his Regiment. He excelled in the first aid classes and continued these once joining his unit. Jonny is now the team medic.

They are on operations and they have an eight mile tab to their objective. Jonny is not as fast as the rest of the guys, the guys go at his pace, they are a unit, every man has a specialist task, the machine gunner, the sniper, the radio op, the mortar man. Every one of them is an infantry soldier however they all bring an added dimension to the team. For a successful operation they all need to get there together. It’s an ambush!!, they fight there way through it and chase of or kill the enemy. There’s a casualty, one of the guys has taken a bullet in the leg. Jonny is the medic, Jonny tends to his wounds and administers morphine, Jonny arranges the medivac. Jonny saves his life, this guy who a year earlier gave Jonny a beating because they lost a race in training. Sometimes competition can be a bad thing. And by the way, Jonny is a British soldier so he continues on and treats the enemy casualties as well.

[Geo the Sarge]

The second type is the power crazy guy, not necessarily a tough guy but he holds the rank. Give me any bother and you’re in trouble. I abuse my power, I’m a Corporal or a Sergeant and because of this you’ll do what I tell you. It starts of with simple stuff, making you do press ups in the middle of a puddle when there is plenty of dry ground around, making you run with the rifle above your head, no reason for it you haven’t done anything wrong, it’s just harder that way, that’s all. You aint gonna go running into battle with your rifle above your head I can assure you so why make you do it? These are the guys who if you correct their mistakes or go one better than them they don’t like it. Your of lower rank, you shouldn’t beat me, I’m going to punish you. In all honestly this is frowned upon in the Army and if reported these guys are dealt with. But that’s the problem, the soldier fears grassing him up for fear of further consequences, if not by the NCO but from his mates. The guy responsible for the bullying of the brother of the forum member I believe was one of this type.

The 3rd type is what we’ve just seen recently, soldiers in particular jobs who are basically given license to bully. Usually it’s the Physical Training Instructor or a member of the Regimental Police. The Gavin Williams case has just finished and the accused have been found not guilty. They killed the lad, they are responsible for his death. Why did they escape punishment? Because they were following orders. What a load of bollox. The Adjutant who ordered them to carry out the beasting should have been in the dock with them and they all should have been punished. I accept they did not mean to kill the lad, however they are responsible. No different than if I was driving my car and reached down to change a CD, not concentrating on the road and a child steps out and I hit and kill them, I’m guilty. I should and would be punished.

Beasting has been a part of Army life probably from inception. It’s not nice, most soldiers have suffered some sort of beasting at one time or another, it does not make it right. I was offered the post of Provost Sergeant in my regiment at one time, I turned it down. I didn’t want to have to change the way I was expected to treat soldiers who had stepped out of line. The thing I don’t get also is that during their careers they all most probably suffered some type of punishment drill. I bet they cursed the sod that was doing it then so why go on and do it yourself.

[Geo the Sarge]

Then you have the out and out thug. This is the guy who, whatever he done in life would be picking on people, usually the big guy that has other limitations and thinks he can make up for it by bullying others. The guy who can’t be bothered to get off his arse to go to the Naffi for his fags so gets the weaker guy to go for him, he won’t refuse, he’s afraid he’ll get a kicking. The guy who is with his mates in the pub, whilst they are chatting up the girls he’s picking fights, he’s not a nice guy, no point trying to chat up the girls he hasn’t a chance. It’s his deficiencies, he’s usually ugly, he’s obnoxious, he’s got nothing going for him but he’s big. So he punches people and he feels superior. He’s a wanker.

Geo.

[Geo the Sarge]

amazingly well written stuff yet again Geo.  Must be hard for you to write, yet it's conjured up such lifelike images.  Brought tears to my eyes reading about your parents' treatment of you all - I've never so much as smacked my daughter, I just couldn't, and find it so hard to fathom how anyone could do that to their children.

Thank you Claire, it hasn't been as difficult to write as I thought, truth be told I'm actually finding it difficult to stop writing when I start. I actually fear that people may stop reading as some of the posts are so long. It has been emotional but I needed to do it for myself. Before blonde all my mates were Army, we didn't discuss these things much, part bravado part not wanting to discuss and raise bad memories I suppose. I've said this in a couple of replies to PM's.

It was always my wife's job to punish, she too never raised a hand. They're big guys now and have done her proud.

Geo.

[TheChipPrince]

Great stuff Geo

[tikay]

amazingly well written stuff yet again Geo.  Must be hard for you to write, yet it's conjured up such lifelike images.  Brought tears to my eyes reading about your parents' treatment of you all - I've never so much as smacked my daughter, I just couldn't, and find it so hard to fathom how anyone could do that to their children.

Thank you Claire, it hasn't been as difficult to write as I thought, truth be told I'm actually finding it difficult to stop writing when I start. I actually fear that people may stop reading as some of the posts are so long. It has been emotional but I needed to do it for myself. Before blonde all my mates were Army, we didn't discuss these things much, part bravado part not wanting to discuss and raise bad memories I suppose. I've said this in a couple of replies to PM's.

It was always my wife's job to punish, she too never raised a hand. They're big guys now and have done her proud.

Geo.

If I may say so Geo, the Posts are just the right length, not too long, not too short, just right.

What a tale!

And what great storytellers blonde has in it's midst.

The beating for the "stolen" cheese, the younger readers won't understand, but in those days, children never, never ever, "took" food from the pantry, it was stealing.

I "stole" a biscuit, got caught, & ended up running away from home for a week & sleeping rough to avoid the punishment I was due - I was 8.

But, oddly, the tough times at home seemed to produce tough adults, & I'm not sure I'd want it any other way, because I can handle mental bumps & bruises with the best of them. And you seem pretty hardy, too, & can, I imagine, handle a wee bit of wind in your face.

That "fireside set" you refer to - coal tongs, brush, poker, coal "spade", every single home had one in the fifties, they were called "Combination Sets" I think. I bet most homes don't have one now.

Keep it coming man. And save it to a Word Document, or something, in case it ever gets lost - one day it may be the basis of a book.

[Geo the Sarge]

amazingly well written stuff yet again Geo.  Must be hard for you to write, yet it's conjured up such lifelike images.  Brought tears to my eyes reading about your parents' treatment of you all - I've never so much as smacked my daughter, I just couldn't, and find it so hard to fathom how anyone could do that to their children.

Thank you Claire, it hasn't been as difficult to write as I thought, truth be told I'm actually finding it difficult to stop writing when I start. I actually fear that people may stop reading as some of the posts are so long. It has been emotional but I needed to do it for myself. Before blonde all my mates were Army, we didn't discuss these things much, part bravado part not wanting to discuss and raise bad memories I suppose. I've said this in a couple of replies to PM's.

It was always my wife's job to punish, she too never raised a hand. They're big guys now and have done her proud.

Geo.

If I may say so Geo, the Posts are just the right length, not too long, not too short, just right.

What a tale!

And what great storytellers blonde has in it's midst.

The beating for the "stolen" cheese, the younger readers won't understand, but in those days, children never, never ever, "took" food from the pantry, it was stealing.

I "stole" a biscuit, got caught, & ended up running away from home for a week & sleeping rough to avoid the punishment I was due - I was 8.

But, oddly, the tough times at home seemed to produce tough adults, & I'm not sure I'd want it any other way, because I can handle mental bumps & bruises with the best of them. And you seem pretty hardy, too, & can, I imagine, handle a wee bit of wind in your face.

That "fireside set" you refer to - coal tongs, brush, poker, coal "spade", every single home had one in the fifties, they were called "Combination Sets" I think. I bet most homes don't have one now.

Keep it coming man. And save it to a Word Document, or something, in case it ever gets lost - one day it may be the basis of a book.

Thanks TK,

And lol at not many homes having fireside sets, not many homes have coal fires these days, they blame Maggie Thatcher you know, I've already started writing a piece on the woman, that'll stir a few hornets I reckon.


geo

[Wardonkey]

It makes fascinating reading George. No danger of getting bored with it!

[tikay]

amazingly well written stuff yet again Geo.  Must be hard for you to write, yet it's conjured up such lifelike images.  Brought tears to my eyes reading about your parents' treatment of you all - I've never so much as smacked my daughter, I just couldn't, and find it so hard to fathom how anyone could do that to their children.

Thank you Claire, it hasn't been as difficult to write as I thought, truth be told I'm actually finding it difficult to stop writing when I start. I actually fear that people may stop reading as some of the posts are so long. It has been emotional but I needed to do it for myself. Before blonde all my mates were Army, we didn't discuss these things much, part bravado part not wanting to discuss and raise bad memories I suppose. I've said this in a couple of replies to PM's.

It was always my wife's job to punish, she too never raised a hand. They're big guys now and have done her proud.

Geo.

If I may say so Geo, the Posts are just the right length, not too long, not too short, just right.

What a tale!

And what great storytellers blonde has in it's midst.

The beating for the "stolen" cheese, the younger readers won't understand, but in those days, children never, never ever, "took" food from the pantry, it was stealing.

I "stole" a biscuit, got caught, & ended up running away from home for a week & sleeping rough to avoid the punishment I was due - I was 8.

But, oddly, the tough times at home seemed to produce tough adults, & I'm not sure I'd want it any other way, because I can handle mental bumps & bruises with the best of them. And you seem pretty hardy, too, & can, I imagine, handle a wee bit of wind in your face.

That "fireside set" you refer to - coal tongs, brush, poker, coal "spade", every single home had one in the fifties, they were called "Combination Sets" I think. I bet most homes don't have one now.

Keep it coming man. And save it to a Word Document, or something, in case it ever gets lost - one day it may be the basis of a book.

Thanks TK,

And lol at not many homes having fireside sets, not many homes have coal fires these days, they blame Maggie Thatcher you know, I've already started writing a piece on the woman, that'll stir a few hornets I reckon.


geo

They blmae Maggie for everything. Except putting right the wrongs of 30 years of poor Goverment.

[Wardonkey]

Did Maggie brake the spell check?

[tikay]

Did Maggie brake the spell check?

Whoa, put your breaks on........

Yeah, I blame - sorry, blmae, her for that, too.