omaha help

[dan]

i'm not that good at omaha but ive been making small profits on the smaller tables and i feel im getting better. i play pot limit, normally 0.15/0.25, 0.25/0.50 and 0.50/1 tables. last night i decided that i would give the 1/2 table a go as i had some success at the lower limits. i sat down with $200 and after a few hands got upto about $215. id been at the table about 10 mins when i was dealt this hand in the bb  Ah . there were 5 of us at the table i cant remember excatly how the betting went but i bet pot when it was my turn which was a $24 bet and i got heads up with the small blind. the flop was  the sb bets at this i think about $14 cant remember the exact amount but reraised him all in. he had about $165 at the start of the hand. he shows  and the turn was  giving him the flush.

what i want to know is did i play this badly? was his call preflop bad? was is all in call bad? was it all my own fault?

be harsh i can take it

thanks in advance

[ACE2M]

Don't raise pre flop in omaha cash games is my advice, it's a bit weak but it works for me. The guy is poor to call for all his chips but pushing all in with a bare pair of aces and no draws is bit risky to.

[thetank]

Oh no no no, you need to raise pre-flop with your good hands at omaha. Else win a heap of small/medium pots with your monster hands instead of hugey wugey ones.

A smaller raise to build the pot when you hold a premium starting hand is preferabble.

The problem with raising the max pre-flop is it can be counter productive. First and foremost it gives your hand away when you have aces, none but the most fishy will pay you off when you hit top set. Plus it can get you pot commited before the flop. Gamblers play pre-flop omaha, if you want to make money in this game, it's there on the later streets.

I would have raised to about 10 pre-flop. A pretty starting hand doesn't mean squat after the flop.
You know that already though. When you don't connect and he bets into you lay it down. Yeah he might have squat coz you're heads up but so do you really. Quit risking your stak on an overpair.

His play was bad sure calling all-in with a K high flush draw, but yours wasn't great either. Sure this time it looks like the right play as he was on a non-nut draw and you set him in, most times someone bet into obvious aces, however, they hold at least 2 pair, perhaps a set. You certainly don't want it all in the middle with 2 outs.

Raising 10 instead of the max you'd probably get more callers, but that's fine, lay it down on the 3 out of 4 flops that don't hit you but on the one where you flop the monster, someone will pay off nicely.

Many may disagree with the above, but this is how thetank plays the game.

[Ironside]

my tip for cash game move to PLO8 and keep pots small untill you are locked for a profit on river and rerereraise those holdem players or those that drew for 1/2 the pot when you are locked to win 3/4 atleast

eitehr that or when you have a low lock and a huge draw for a high build the pot up and take home the jelly babies

[snoopy1239]

The problem is that some players only raise preflop in omaha when they have pcoket aces. Therefore opponents can flatcall and then trapcheck if they hit two pair or somehting. It makes you very easy to read and can cost you some big pots. Avoid this by raising with some marginal hands and running cards like  . You need to mix it up a bit.

His call is very dubious. He holds a pretty weak starting hand.

What was even worse was the way he played the flop. All he really had was a flush draw, and even then it was only king high. He shouldn't be drawing to a potentially losing hand.

I don't think there was much wrong with your play. Personally, I never raise with aces preflop. I only reraise in an effort to get heads up in a big pot.

[snoopy1239]

A smaller raise to build the pot when you hold a premium starting hand is preferabble.

I'm not too keen on this unless you have running cards.

If you make a small bet with aces then you're pretty much relying on spiking an ace on the flop and then hoping it doesn't get outdrawn. You might as well flatcall.

Maybe this would be feasibile if your hand was double suited.

[thetank]

His hand was AAKQ double suited.
If that's not worth a pot sweetning raise pre-flop what is?

[dan]

thanks for your points guys. i realise that all i had post flop was a bare pair of aces but i still felt they were good as i didnt really put him on 2 pair on that flop and there wasnt a straight or flush on the flop. yes he could have a ready made set but i didnt think he would call such a raise with jj 22 or 55 in his hand so i felt the only hands he could have were drawing ones. i thought that i might be able to take the pot down there and then thats why i put in such a raise.

the guy had already reloaded in the 10 mins i was at the table, this made me think he might not want to call to lose all his money again.

thanks for your replies so far they are very helpful, as i said im still trying to learn and improve.

[Tractor]

I pretty much agree with Tank here, I quite often take on the players i know raise pot only with aces.
And Sloopy is also right in saying raise with other running/double suited connectors.
The only time i may re-raise with Aces if its been raised and there is a lot of callers then i may re-raise in the hope of getting heads up.
In Omaha Pocket Aces are a dog to two or more players (afaik)..
I actually think you were a biy unlucky and he was very lucky drawing to non nut flushes and runs only cause a lot of pain n the long term.

[redsimon]

pokenum  -o ac ah kh qc  -  - ks 8 s 7 h 6 d  -- j s 5 d 2 s
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing J s 2 s 5 d
cards          win   %win  lose  %lose  tie  %tie     EV
A c Q c  A h  K h  423  51.59   397  48.41    0  0.00  0.516
K s 8 s  6 d  7 h  397  48.41   423  51.59    0  0.00  0.484

Unlucky as if he put you on AAxx you could easily had Ace Spades suit which would crush him:

Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing J s 2 s 5 d
cards          win   %win  lose  %lose  tie  %tie     EV
A s Q s  A h  K h  734  89.51    86  10.49    0  0.00  0.895
K s 8 s  6 d  7 h   86  10.49   734  89.51    0  0.00  0.105

[dik9]

In my opinion, your starting hand is well worth a pot raise or build, and it was a bad call by the other player, however, once the flop had come over, you had no part of it. A pot call and a bet post flop would indicate a set had been made therefore a pass would be the wisest play regardless of whether you think you are in front.

Yes his preflop call was bad
Yes his post flop raise was bad
Yes his all in call was bad
He got Lucky

But as you do not know his hand
You have to take it that he had some interest in the flop and a pair is very weak at PLO

[Sunday8pm]

very unlucky Dan,

and after reading peoples points about the hand i think i have to agree with snoopy.....i like to raise pot in omaha with a wide vareity of hands. It disguises your hand very naturally i think and in the long term people will pay you off with crap when you have the nuts.

AAKQ = monster
5678 = money cards

you will generally only win big pots with weaker hands i think. you raise pot pre flop with AAKQ and it comes A83....not many people are gona pay you off......whereas you raise with 5678 flop comes 345..........ive seen people pay whole stacks off with garbage like 54 and A2.

your weaker cards are your money cards in my opinion.

hope this helps mate....see you in the carribean

[dan]

are you going mate

[snoopy1239]

very unlucky Dan,

and after reading peoples points about the hand i think i have to agree with snoopy.....i like to raise pot in omaha with a wide vareity of hands. It disguises your hand very naturally i think and in the long term people will pay you off with crap when you have the nuts.

AAKQ = monster
5678 = money cards

you will generally only win big pots with weaker hands i think. you raise pot pre flop with AAKQ and it comes A83....not many people are gona pay you off......whereas you raise with 5678 flop comes 345..........ive seen people pay whole stacks off with garbage like 54 and A2.

your weaker cards are your money cards in my opinion.

hope this helps mate....see you in the carribean

I agree. You should look at which hands are gonna pay you off. Go for the moster pots.

Pocket aces is still a mighty hand though. I just think you should get as much money into the pot heads up as you can. If not, then be aware that folk are going to trapcheck you.

It's like in high low, if someone raises, you know they probably have A2.

[M3boy]

The problem is that some players only raise preflop in omaha when they have pcoket aces. Therefore opponents can flatcall and then trapcheck if they hit two pair or somehting. It makes you very easy to read and can cost you some big pots. Avoid this by raising with some marginal hands and running cards like  . You need to mix it up a bit.

His call is very dubious. He holds a pretty weak starting hand.

What was even worse was the way he played the flop. All he really had was a flush draw, and even then it was only king high. He shouldn't be drawing to a potentially losing hand.

I don't think there was much wrong with your play. Personally, I never raise with aces preflop. I only reraise in an effort to get heads up in a big pot.

Just to re-iterate snoopy's comments above.
Below is a snapshot of an omaha $2 $4 P/L (please forgive the multi tableing, its the bottom one) , have a look in the chat box. My hand was
6 7 8 9
raised preflop, got re raised and called in 2 spots so i called as well.
Other guys had AA rag rag , AA rag rag, KK rag rag



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