Can't call this can I?

[Graham C]

PokerStars Game #19400237965:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/08/06 - 04:49:18 (ET)
Table 'Ariadne II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: strike55 ($33.25 in chips)
Seat 2: XxMISSMELxX ($34.40 in chips)
Seat 3: bigboat1981 ($5.55 in chips)
Seat 4: Graham0573 ($90.60 in chips)
Seat 5: gameandwatch ($136.55 in chips)
Seat 6: adawg362 ($52.80 in chips)
adawg362: posts small blind $0.25
strike55: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Graham0573 [ ]
XxMISSMELxX: raises $0.50 to $1
bigboat1981: calls $1
Graham0573: raises $3 to $4
gameandwatch: folds
adawg362: folds
strike55: folds
XxMISSMELxX: calls $3
bigboat1981: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
XxMISSMELxX: checks
Graham0573: bets $6
XxMISSMELxX: calls $6
*** TURN *** [ ] []
XxMISSMELxX: checks
Graham0573: checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
XxMISSMELxX: bets $24
Graham0573: folds
Uncalled bet ($24) returned to XxMISSMELxX
XxMISSMELxX collected $20.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $21.75 | Rake $1.05
Board [ ]
Seat 1: strike55 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: XxMISSMELxX collected ($20.70)
Seat 3: bigboat1981 folded before Flop
Seat 4: Graham0573 folded on the River
Seat 5: gameandwatch (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: adawg362 (small blind) folded before Flop


Should I have 3 bet with the Jacks here after the min raise utg?   She called damn quick and snap called my flop bet.    It's a fold isn't it?

[boldie]

your check on the turn implies weakness...the 24$ is not an amount I would expect someone to valuebet here...I probably call...and curse

[Graham C]

Yeah, I just didn't want to be C/R on the turn with my hand here.  I seem to be paying off a lot of check raisers at the moment with average holdings and it's just crippling my win rate.

[boldie]

Yeah, I just didn't want to be C/R on the turn with my hand here.  I seem to be paying off a lot of check raisers at the moment with average holdings and it's just crippling my win rate.

I don't mind you not betting the turn..but I reckon you would have to call the river bet becase you checked the turn...if that makes sense.

[Grier78]

I call the river because the most likely situation is that you have induced a bluff or made her feel that her A10 is good. The river bet is too big to be a value bet and looks more like it wants to push you off the hand and could well be a missed flush draw.

[MC]

Think you outthought yourself here, check on the turn is fine.

But what does she make this bet with that beats you?

*Have to suggest it's unlikely she has a 2 right here. A2 is a slim possibility, surely other hands with a 2 fold preflop?
*Flopped 2 pair? T2, 24...seems highly unlikely...
*Did she flop a set? She might well have raised the flop with a set. Only a slim possibility. Surely you don't bet so much with a full house on the river when you've shown no interest on the turn
*QQ, KK and AA all 4 bet you preflop.
*I guess there's a slim chance she has A3.

You beat every other hand...missed flush draws, value bets on a ten, 77s-99s, A5, complete air...

Standard call and most of the time the pot is yours I think.

[snoopy1239]

Suck it up and call. His range is too wide with the way it played and the draws that could have been missed. Nothing wrong with the 3b pf. You simply must call in these situations, otherwise you'll be folding a lot of winning hands.

[AlexMartin]

You played this really well imo until the river. The C behind on the turn is ideal here for pot control and to induce bluffs from a wide range on the river. But given that they dont have a full stack, min raise/called utg, check called the flop then donk overbet the river.....this adds up to a monkey and i think calling is deffo best.

[kinboshi]

You played this really well imo until the river. The C behind on the turn is ideal here for pot control and to induce bluffs from a wide range on the river.

I was about to post exactly the same.  I guess that's a good thing...?

But given that they dont have a full stack, min raise/called utg, check called the flop then donk overbet the river.....this adds up to a monkey and i think calling is deffo best.

I think I struggle here deciding when it's a clever over-bet for value, or an out and out bluff.  With no knowlege of the player it screams of missed flush-draw - but maybe it's meant to...  I still call and swear and kick the cat (if I had one).

[TheChipPrince]

You played it very well Graham, you just forgot to call!!   

[Graham C]

Cheers guys

[AlexMartin]

You played this really well imo until the river. The C behind on the turn is ideal here for pot control and to induce bluffs from a wide range on the river.

I was about to post exactly the same.  I guess that's a good thing...?

But given that they dont have a full stack, min raise/called utg, check called the flop then donk overbet the river.....this adds up to a monkey and i think calling is deffo best.

I think I struggle here deciding when it's a clever over-bet for value, or an out and out bluff.  With no knowlege of the player it screams of missed flush-draw - but maybe it's meant to...  I still call and swear and kick the cat (if I had one).

Look at that board. Only 1010 hit a set, you can discount 22 and 44 i think. There are no twos in his range. Fives is a distinct possibility as is Ah4h. But those possibilities are so remote compared to missed flush draws, bad floats with overcards oop, tens and a bunch of other junk that you can justify paying him off when he does hit. In general overbet shoves are huge hands, id guess about 65% of the time, but here it looks like 1010 or nothing tbh.

[Rupert]

I'd just barrel the turn as well and get value from a ton of hands that don't bet the turn.  Like tens, hearts, .  Then either check/call or bet the river.  I assume most NL50 players are calling stations and generally pretty bad so I see no reason not to value town on a relatively safe board.  Realistically all you should be afraid of on the turn is TT and QQ-AA the occasional time he decides to trap preflop or w/e but there's a ton of value from hands that call the flop since they're likely to call the turn as well.

[Sunday8pm]

I'd just barrel the turn as well and get value from a ton of hands that don't bet the turn.  Like tens, hearts, .  Then either check/call or bet the river.  I assume most NL50 players are calling stations and generally pretty bad so I see no reason not to value town on a relatively safe board.  Realistically all you should be afraid of on the turn is TT and QQ-AA the occasional time he decides to trap preflop or w/e but there's a ton of value from hands that call the flop since they're likely to call the turn as well.

Stop giving advice you are dead money in cash games

[fidget]

I can't see how this is ever a pass but i live in value town - population me