Re-shove vs Stop & Go

[Grier78]

You are sat on the BB with 12BB facing a 3BB raise from late position. The raiser is a LAG and you wish to either re-shove or call and shove on any flop.

What factors would you take into account when deciding which to do?

Would different stack sizes change your decision?

Do different hand ranges affect your decision?


Any help appreciated.

[bolt pp]

Would different stack sizes change your decision?

oppo's stack size most important factor for me

[Longy]

I stop n go once in a blue moon, often in weird bubble short stack spots etc, opponent specific etc.

Everyone semi comptent playing poker online now, knows what a stop n go is and will see it a mile off. Will quite happily call your flop bet with ace high.

[DaveShoelace]

Assuming my preference is to take down a pot before showdown, I'd edge towards stop and goes with the pocket pairs and reshoves with the big aces, suited connectors etc. The reason being with a pair you only want to see 3 cards and with the ace hands/broadway/suited connectors you really want to see all five if you do get called.

But as Longy said, stop and goes are pretty easy to spot these days and Im usually opting for shoves or folds 99% of the time. Though a stop and go with AA/KK/QQ isnt all that bad for that reason.

[DungBeetle]

I agree with Bolt - Lag's stack size is vital.  If you are going to shove on him light then it needs to hurt him if he calls and loses.

[thetank]

You are sat on the BB with 12BB facing a 3BB raise from late position. The raiser is a LAG and you wish to either re-shove or call and shove on any flop.

What factors would you take into account when deciding which to do?

Would different stack sizes change your decision?

Do different hand ranges affect your decision?


Any help appreciated.

Just played a hand where onedognight is in pretty much exactly situation you describe.
He has 12BB and is facing a 3BB raise from me on the button. (I'm pretty LAG)

His hand is  , and he chooses the stop n go.

 
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 2: D J Grizzly1 ( $8080.00 USD )
Seat 4: onedognight ( $2360.00 USD )
Seat 7: HERO ( $3060.00 USD )

D J Grizzly1 posts small blind [$100.00 USD].
onedognight posts big blind [$200.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [    ]
HERO raises [$600.00 USD]
D J Grizzly1 folds
onedognight calls [$400.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
onedognight bets [$1760.00 USD] (all-in)


I don't do a lot of stop and gos myself.
As Longy says, one type of player will usually spot them and call you with ace-high. The other type of player may not spot them, but will call you with ace-high anyway.

I need to be very confident that a shove has no fold equity to make the stop n go look appealing to me.

I call, (if only to make a reply on this thread)


HERO calls [$1760.00 USD]
onedognight shows [, ]


I think he chose an excellent spot for the stop n go here.
I can say with absolute certainty that there are no hands I will raise 3BB there and fold to 9 more. So he has no pre-flop fold equity with a push.


HERO shows [, ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
** Dealing River ** [  ]
HERO wins $4820.00 USD from main pot


Bit unlucky of him there, not to say he played it wrong though.

I probably would have folded if his flop bet was 1/2 to 3/4 pot. It would have looked a lot stronger instead of screaming stop n go.
Maybe he does better long run with the call from overcards though?




Footnote: If I were in onedognight's spot against a random opponent. I would have just pushed pre-flop.
The reason is you will have pre-flop fold equity here against most opponents. (just not against me.)
Even winning players will pass a lot, ignoring the pot odds and the subtelties of metagame, they just don't want to call a lot of chips off with a hand like JTo because they think it's a bad play.

(I guess we could use your M:TG now and say that now compared to two years ago, the meta has shifted so that in the majority of situations, moving over the top is now a better option than the stop and go.)

[fergus8]

i always like a dwell up on the flop with stop and goes

[ ] this answers your question in any way, shape or form
[X] its 5:34am

[thetank]

It's a good point.

Not going to fool too many people in itself, but makes the move a little less obvious than insta all-in. No harm in trying it.

[TheChipPrince]

But is that a stop-a-go tho Tank?  Surely he's just shoving because the flop is a dream for pocket 5's.  I bet he's not thinking, ''right i'll flat this and shove any flop''

If it comes 9 J K, he dont shove...

[thetank]

Hmm, maybe you're right.

What do you think of the call w AQ high? Standard?