I know the answer (I think)

[david3103]

Final Table, HH 6 players left

Stack sizes (approx)

Button 10,000
SB (Me) 16,000
BB     24,000
UTG 5,800
UTG+1 6,300
MP 12,000

Blinds 300/600

UTG shoves
UTG+1 instant call - even before UTG has let go of his chips
folded to me
I have KK

what do I do?

is this an automatic shove, which will inevitably leave me just facing the two original raisers?

or is there value in flatcalling thinking that I am ahead and that there is a strong likelihood that at least one of UTG/UTG+1 has A something thus reducing the likelihood of another A appearing; also do I want BB to call with an underpair/whatever?

[Graham C]

UTG+1 only has 500 chips more, get them in now if you can, shove imo.

[TheChipPrince]

I dont think calling or shoving makes any difference, the BB needs a monster hand to call with 3 players paying 10 BB's and 2 all-in, if he flat called and an A comes on the board your left with awkward decisions, dont give yourself these, shove it all in pre-flop...

[EvilPie]

Don't shove.

The value is in flat calling hoping to induce a shove from the BB if he has an underpair or Ax. It might help to dwell up a bit and try to make it look like a reluctant call as well. That is more likely to get a shove from tens, jacks or queens.

You don't want to isolate the 2 others because chances are one of them has an ace so if it drops you lose anyway.

You want a side pot here with the BB. If he has an ace as well then you're a huge favourite.

You want the BB to call with any hand that isn't a pair of aces.

[thetank]

BB with small pair/whatever isn't getting the odds to try and stack you and your obvious monster so go ahead and flat it.

I dont think calling or shoving makes any difference, the BB needs a monster hand to call with 3 players paying 10 BB's and 2 all-in, if he flat called and an A comes on the board your left with awkward decisions, dont give yourself these, shove it all in pre-flop...

That's assuming the BB is playing perfectly. He might push over a flat with something crazy like AK or flat call with any pair.

In general, avoiding awkard situations is good. However, I don't think this is one of them. For sure we don't want an A-high flop, but the pot would be so huge it's not going to slow us down.

[david3103]

small edit to the opening moves - UTG+1 shoved

I flat called ( I am reassured that this was the right move), BB thought long and hard and eventually called

flop was J high rainbow - something like 4 J 7 i think

I bet 3000 BB went all in.....

call or fold?

[thetank]

insta-call, no question

Guessing he had JJ....gg

[TheChipPrince]

That's assuming the BB is playing perfectly. He might push over a flat with something crazy like AK or flat call with any pair.

Good point, also ive just noticed its a HEADHUNTER MTT, changes everything, of course the BB calls with any pair, he's after the head value...

[TheChipPrince]

Thinking about it, I would definately shove, the BB will call with a wide range in a Headhunter here with 3 players all-in, he won't be able to resist the head value with any decen A or pair...

[david3103]

I'm confused now (not that that's a new experience for me)

I thought after the event that I should have shoved over the top to get the BB out of the hand

events proved me right but I didn't want to have the 50p fine for a bad beat story

All my chips went in on the flop BB turned over QJ

I was dealing for the table and produced my speciality, the Q on the river to give him two pair and a massive pot.

I did manage to hang on for third

[kinboshi]

You got the result you wanted.  The BB called with an inferior hand and made a mistake.  You just got unlucky - so 50p please.

The way the hand played out, the flat call or the shove pre-flop would have produced the same result.

[david3103]

You got the result you wanted.  The BB called with an inferior hand and made a mistake.  You just got unlucky - so 50p please.

The way the hand played out, the flat call or the shove pre-flop would have produced the same result.

the 50p is fair, but I still wonder if I'd have got a better result from shoving pre?

I believe I would fold QJ pre in BB's position against a shove from a stack that could seriously damage him.

But then I think I could fold QJ here even without the shove and that's probably not winning poker

[MC]

This is an auto-shove...

The pot is big enough without trying to encourage more action behind you.

[thetank]

Somethings not right, or am I missing it?

How did you hang on for 3rd if BB had 24k at the start of the hand and stacked your 16k?

[david3103]

Somethings not right, or am I missing it?

How did you hang on for 3rd if BB had 24k at the start of the hand and stacked your 16k?

eff - my mistake, I had him just about covered and was left with about 4,000

my memory dims as the years pass by