Croatia Vs England

[Pelham Boy]

Something that no one has mentioned is the Gerrard operation fiasco. Surely this is something that could have waited until Liverpool were playing Hull or Stoke. It would be interesting to know if Gerrard had any say on the timing of the operation. Croatia away is England's most important game for the next 12 months ffs.

I would imagine Capello is pretty frustrated about the situation,something he will have to get used to i'm afraid.

[turny]

I am sure there are many chelsea fans and I read a post with someone stating people ought to stop defending their teams in international football debates. So if we're going to go on assumptions, that was the thinking behind mine.

Your decision to go on the defensive, I am afraid. And really. If I wanted to insult your intelligence, I wouldn't do it over Frank Lampard lol.

My point is that I wouldn't play Lampard. He isn't going to learn to play with Gerrard. How can he? Not like Scolari will encourage it. We need to look for a substitute to play with Gerrard because Gerrard is the better of the two and has the passion.

None of the players these days have the passion. Pearce, Gascoigne and Shearer actually loved playing for their country. We've so few players like that now that's got to be more ruthless. If they don't want to perform, just don't play them. We've got plenty of players dying for the chance.

come on do u really think anyone would go out, pull on an england shirt then think "fuck it im not giving 100% today"?

i doubt that considerably tbh.

players can rule themselves out of international duty if they really feel that way

because they dont fall about crying,clutch the badge at every oppurtunity or pump the air all the time doesnt mean they arent passionate.

Talking about extremes is not a good way to put forward an argument. Obviously, no, they are not thinking "I am going to play shit tonight. I don't care."

At the same time, I do believe they're going out with the mentality that they're not in danger of losing their team place along with the lack of drive and determination other countries have due to their prestigiously high wages and greater focus on the Premiership. A point not helped by Fergie and co.

Give me an XI of top flight players not considered good enough for England and the current England XI and you can bet your life they'd have the game of their life because the burning desire to prove oneself and to win will ignite in the lesser able team and they'll take the game to the First XI. That sort of mentality is what is missing.

i said before mate we dont argue on here we debate 

im out of here anyway, good luck england il miss the first half as im playing footie but im sure il be around after for the "lets blame fat frank" debate

[kinboshi]

Something that no one has mentioned is the Gerrard operation fiasco. Surely this is something that could have waited until Liverpool were playing Hull or Stoke. It would be interesting to know if Gerrard had any say on the timing of the operation. Croatia away is England's most important game for the next 12 months ffs.

I would imagine Capello is pretty frustrated about the situation,something he will have to get used to i'm afraid.

Of course it was timed to coincide with the internationals.    The same way as man u players have consistently been 'injured' just before an international, only to miraculously recover after the international break.

Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in the world.  Why would Liverpool (the club that pays his wages) want him to miss Liverpool matches to be fit for England games - and the risk that he might pick up another (or the same) injury and miss games after the internationals?  I'm not saying it's the right attitude or the wrong one - it's just the reality.

[relaedgc]

i said before mate we dont argue on here we debate 

im out of here anyway, good luck england il miss the first half as im playing footie but im sure il be around after for the "lets blame fat frank" debate

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ar·gu·ment    Audio Help   /ˈɑrgyəmənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahr-gyuh-muhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun

a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

[AndrewT]

Give me an XI of top flight players not considered good enough for England and the current England XI and you can bet your life they'd have the game of their life because the burning desire to prove oneself and to win will ignite in the lesser able team and they'll take the game to the First XI. That sort of mentality is what is missing.

I've often thought that the senior team should play the U-21s in a match at Wembley for exactly this reason.

[Pelham Boy]

Something that no one has mentioned is the Gerrard operation fiasco. Surely this is something that could have waited until Liverpool were playing Hull or Stoke. It would be interesting to know if Gerrard had any say on the timing of the operation. Croatia away is England's most important game for the next 12 months ffs.

I would imagine Capello is pretty frustrated about the situation,something he will have to get used to i'm afraid.

Of course it was timed to coincide with the internationals.    The same way as man u players have consistently been 'injured' just before an international, only to miraculously recover after the international break.

Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in the world.  Why would Liverpool (the club that pays his wages) want him to miss Liverpool matches to be fit for England games - and the risk that he might pick up another (or the same) injury and miss games after the internationals?  I'm not saying it's the right attitude or the wrong one - it's just the reality.

I wasn't having a dig at Liverpool mate,i realise other clubs do the same,but Gerrard is more important to England than say Hargreaves.

I know it's Liverpool that pay his wages,but Benitez is bound to rest Gerrard at some stage. Couldn't Gerrard have said i want to play against Croatia? Maybe i'm being naive,but when the players are accused of not caring enough about England it just makes me wonder.

[relaedgc]

Something that no one has mentioned is the Gerrard operation fiasco. Surely this is something that could have waited until Liverpool were playing Hull or Stoke. It would be interesting to know if Gerrard had any say on the timing of the operation. Croatia away is England's most important game for the next 12 months ffs.

I would imagine Capello is pretty frustrated about the situation,something he will have to get used to i'm afraid.

Of course it was timed to coincide with the internationals.    The same way as man u players have consistently been 'injured' just before an international, only to miraculously recover after the international break.

Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in the world.  Why would Liverpool (the club that pays his wages) want him to miss Liverpool matches to be fit for England games - and the risk that he might pick up another (or the same) injury and miss games after the internationals?  I'm not saying it's the right attitude or the wrong one - it's just the reality.

I wasn't having a dig at Liverpool mate,i realise other clubs do the same,but Gerrard is more important to England than say Hargreaves.

I know it's Liverpool that pay his wages,but Benitez is bound to rest Gerrard at some stage. Couldn't Gerrard have said i want to play against Croatia? Maybe i'm being naive,but when the players are accused of not caring enough about England it just makes me wonder.

I think the Clubs are certainly one part of the larger problem.

I would imagine if the club tell Gerrard to go in for an operation, he has a contractual obligation to do it, irrespective of England loyalties.

[WarBwastard]

There are only 4 players who seem to really care about playing for England at the moment, David James, Joe Cole, Emile Heskey and Michael Owen (and only 1 of them started on Saturday).

Beckham cares, even if he is nearly as old and past it as tikay.

Have I missed any exciting moments ?

Yeah Beckham cares more than most, but i'm not sure he cares as much as he used to when he was captain.

You missed John Terry being branded a 'lionheart' when he chucks himself in front of a shot to block it - even though he was caught out of position in the first place which caused the opportunity.

This will probably sound daft (but hey i'm good at it) but imo John Terry still hasn't proved he's good enough to play at international level.I've watched him in a few games where i've thought his defending has been really poor.This isn't another dig at a chelsea player and he is immense at club level but i don't think he should be captain as i don't think he should even be guarenteed his game he still needs to prove his quality for England as i say imo.

yawn!!! imo

If he was saying the same about Rio Ferdinand your response wouldnt be yawn.

People need to take off their club blinkers when talking about the players playing for England - it is not only Chelsea fans, it is Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal fans.

IMO fwiw, Ashley Cole and Frank Lampard should not be in the England team - they are over-rated and would not make any of the top clubs national sides.
John Terry and Rio Ferdinand are also over-rated. Ferdinand is made to look very good by playing alongside Vidic, likewise Terry alongside Carvalho.  Given the choice of defensive partnerships over Terry and Ferdinand and Vidic and Carvalho, to me it is a no brainer and would never be Terry and Rio.  

As i support Palace (no chance of anyone playing for England), i can be honest in how i believe that players have performed, without bigging up my own clubs players, and i'm not the only one who can see that our players are not as good as we like to think.

Arsenal fans??  Don't bring us into this squabble.  We have nothing to do with England. 

[pokerram]

we can play with lampard and gerrard in a mid 5 with hargreaves or barry anchor. still trouble upfront though. basic football pick the players for the system or the system for the players

[amcgrath1uk]

Beckham not playing, Walcott is!

[Colchester Kev]

heres the starting 11

 James, Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Walcott, Lampard, Barry, Joe Cole, Rooney, Heskey.


Subs: Robinson, Johnson, Beckham, Downing, Defoe, Upson, Jenas.

[Colchester Kev]

Seriously Emile Heskey .. HOW ?

[ChipRich]

I fancy England tonight, not really sure why.

Walcott is an absolute must imo, he was the only 1 that gave any attacking options and flair other day.

Cole And Heskey start too, Heskey adds a bit of strength and holds the ball up, better option than Defoe for England tonight.

3-1 England.

[Colchester Kev]

We all WANT england to win the fkin lot ... I THINK we can get a point tonight, I am NOT expecting a good flowing game of football ... I havent seen England play a decent game for years.

All 3 points would be nice and i hope we can get them ... but I fear a nervy point is the best we will get .

[Colchester Kev]

cheeky web link

http://it.justin.tv/spok88

it aint John Motson commentating, but it will do.