''The Mentality of Football fans''

[TheChipPrince]

Ive been debating whether to write about this since sat, its been bugging me since.

I've had a few free saturdays over the last month *cough*, and this sat me and a mate came over to Nottingham for the weekend for a couple of nights in DTD, and on sat I got us some tickets for Forest V Barnsley (neither of us support either, it was just for a bit of fun and to tick another off my 92 list). 

We were in the Brian Clough stand, and I parked over by Notts County's ground, walked over a bridge to the ground etc etc.  As were heading back to the car, not in any rush, staying til after the final whistle, we were at the base of the bridge waiting to go up some stairs (Someone on here will know the one I mean). The crowd was gathered here, all waiting to go up these stairs, Forest fans in a jovial mood after a 1-0 win. 

Next thing the mood changes when at the bridge above a flow of Barnsley fans starts above almost above us, when, for no, repeat no, apparent reason, at least 3/4 started spitting over the edge.  I know theres Forest fans and Barnsley fans on here and i'm not tarring anyone with any brush, but isnt this a really sad state of affairs??

Im standing next to an elderly gentlemen who looked the sort thats had a many a day at Forest and he was with a young lad, his grandson presumably, and I heard him say to himself i suppose ''The mentatlity of some football fans''.  I actually felt upset on his part as he looked pretty sad in front of me.  I wonder what he must think of the 'younger' generation of football fan on the whole??

I've followed Wales away to Russia and at least there you brace yourself to 'expect' the worst even when you shouldnt have to, but a peaceful saturday in Nottingham I really thought, ''no wonder football fans have a reputation'', its appalling isnt it??

I mean this wasnt 50 thugs having an organised punch up after 10 pints of wife-beater, I was standing with kids and their parents, gents in their 70's with their wives.

Its sad, infact it spoilt my day.

[Longy]

I know exactly where you mean, i think you were about to walk up the stairs "Lady bay" bridge as the more famous trent bridge has more of a gradual slope than steps.

It is the "only" time of week I try to avoid going out round here,i know some Norwich fans complained about some unprovoked attacks at Forest the other week. Just about every league side has a minority of complete idiots, unfortunately they seem to identify themselves with the local football club and disgrace themselves as well as everyone else.

To be fair and balanced i have travelled to around 50 league grounds and  around 150 games around the country watching Norwich over the years. There are only 2 where i have had trouble with opposition supporters Ipswich (ldo) and Wolves. Obv there wasn't any real trouble involving me as I have no interest in getting involved so did all i could to avoid trouble and the fact i couldn't punch my way out of a paper bag.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I was parked in the same place and made the same walk under the bridge.  I heard a bit of a shouting match but didn't witness any spitting (this is not to say that it didn't happen, I just didn't see it myself).

Unfortunately there's history between Barnsley and Forest fans that dates back to the Miners Strike, so you're witnessing the mindless minority from both clubs who seem determined to resurrect this at every game almost a quarter of a century on.  It's the same thing when we play Derby too.

As usual there's a huge argument on the Barnsley supporters forum at the moment between those who chanted 'Scab' at the match and those who are embarrassed to hear it.  It's an emotive topic but a depressing one to read.

What you witnessed was nothing to do with the match itself, or even anything to do with the respective football clubs, just a carry over of long-held grudges between two former coal-mining communities.  On the flip-side of the coin, the Barnsley coaches were bricked as they left the city, leaving the usual collection of smashed windows for the journey home.

Sadly, the same thing will happen next year, and the year after when this fixture arises.  It's fairly small scale in the grand scheme of things, given the numbers involved but that doesn't make it any less pleasant to witness when caught up in it.

[TheChipPrince]

I know exactly where you mean, i think you were about to walk up the stairs "Lady bay" bridge as the more famous trent bridge has more of a gradual slope than steps.

Yep thats the one, 'reet busy it was at 4.55!

[Horneris]

sigh, Barnsley.

I went to Barnsley v Leeds a couple of years ago and was in the train station. I was on the side of teh Barnsley fans as i was off to Sheffield back to uni (lol), not back to Leeds. There was like 300 Barnsley fans on this side of the tracks and 500 Leeds fans on the other side going home.

They started off taunting each other and singing, then throwing coins and bottles at each other, i got hit by a coin from one of my own fans, sigh, then a few idiots starting trying to cross the tracks/platform to attack each other (this is in a train station so obv u have to jump down and would have to climb back up). All i kept thinking as they tried to do this was wtf happens if either train comes now, some of them would be seriously gr8 gamed, as its quite a bit of a jump/climb.

It was pretty comedy tho. [  ] I didnt try and keep quiet and stay out of the way.

Then the police came and sorted it all out eventually. Couldve been such brudel scenes tho.

[TheChipPrince]

I was parked in the same place and made the same walk under the bridge.  I heard a bit of a shouting match but didn't witness any spitting (this is not to say that it didn't happen, I just didn't see it myself).

Unfortunately there's history between Barnsley and Forest fans that dates back to the Miners Strike, so you're witnessing the mindless minority from both clubs who seem determined to resurrect this at every game almost a quarter of a century on.  It's the same thing when we play Derby too.

As usual there's a huge argument on the Barnsley supporters forum at the moment between those who chanted 'Scab' at the match and those who are embarrassed to hear it.  It's an emotive topic but a depressing one to read.

What you witnessed was nothing to do with the match itself, or even anything to do with the respective football clubs, just a carry over of long-held grudges between two former coal-mining communities.  On the flip-side of the coin, the Barnsley coaches were bricked as they left the city, leaving the usual collection of smashed windows for the journey home.

Sadly, the same thing will happen next year, and the year after when this fixture arises.  It's fairly small scale in the grand scheme of things, given the numbers involved but that doesn't make it any less pleasant to witness when caught up in it.

Small world eh...  

Couple of points, I never heard any scab chants, so nothing to say on that.

When you say there's 'history' between the two, I doubt any of the late teens/early 20's who were the culprits would have heard of the disputes during the minors strike!  I mean they may have heard a 'biased strike debate' going on in their local, but I dont any of them know any real truth about it.

[TheChipPrince]

sigh, Barnsley.

I went to Barnsley v Leeds a couple of years ago and was in the train station. I was on the side of teh Barnsley fans as i was off to Sheffield back to uni (lol), not back to Leeds. There was like 300 Barnsley fans on this side of the tracks and 500 Leeds fans on the other side going home.

They started off taunting each other and singing, then throwing coins and bottles at each other, i got hit by a coin from one of my own fans, sigh, then a few idiots starting trying to cross the tracks/platform to attack each other (this is in a train station so obv u have to jump down and would have to climb back up). All i kept thinking as they tried to do this was wtf happens if either train comes now, some of them would be seriously gr8 gamed, as its quite a bit of a jump/climb.

It was pretty comedy tho. [  ] I didnt try and keep quiet and stay out of the way.

Then the police came and sorted it all out eventually. Couldve been such brudel scenes tho.

It was far from that mate, thugs who wanna fight each can gladly beat 7 shades of shit out of each other as long as they all 'know' thats what they were doing. 

It was 3/4 sly spits over the edge 10 feet down onto families and older people...

[Sheriff Fatman]

Small world eh...  

Couple of points, I never heard any scab chants, so nothing to say on that.

When you say there's 'history' between the two, I doubt any of the late teens/early 20's who were the culprits would have heard of the disputes during the minors strike!  I mean they may have heard a 'biased strike debate' going on in their local, but I dont any of them know any real truth about it.

It's deeper than that.  It's passed on from father to son and perpetuates through the generations.  Half those chanting nowadays are teenagers who weren't even born at the time.

I've just dug through the Barnsley fan's thread I referred to and found this as an example, quoted verbatim, which gives you an idea of the mindset.  The OP was a fan moaning about the inevitable scab chants and arguing that surely it's time for this to end.  This is one of the replies.

As a minors son...

growing up durung the strike and experiencing having feck all and seeing my parents now, still not fully recovered, I have no shame in showning those dirsty grabbing self richeous scabby Barstewards for what they are.

And the chants of Arthur Scargill is a wanker and theres only 1 maggie thatcher coming from the home ends shows that they know how deep it cuts in barnsley - it is my history and my heritage and I for one will stand and be counted and MARK MY WORDS willl still be standing at the end.

Where were you in '84?

I learned long ago to avoid the arguments on this topic, as the passions run ridiculously high whenever it's discussed.  I'm a coal miner's son.  Our family suffered hardship during the strike and beyond.  However, there are those among our supporters who would count me as a traitor for not wanting to perpetuate the hatred ad infinitum.  Bizarrely as it seems, I go to these matches to watch the club I love play badly and lose, which we did with almost clinical precision again on Saturday!

[TheChipPrince]

Should have buried that header at the end eh?

If you'd have scored first Forest were there for the taking, too many inexperienced players for a relegation battle. Crowd would have jumped on them. Not too worry, had £5 notes on Garner first goal at 8's!

[CelticGeezeer]

Yes the wonderful backbone of the Nottingham miners is hard to forget.

[Chili]

Showing I'm an old cow now, this just reminded me of an incident that I have not thought about for years.

It was 1994 and I was working in a wine bar in Nottingham - opposite the castle.  I used to work the graveyard afternoon shift all on me tod from 3pm till 6pm.  This particular Wednesday evening Forest were facing Millwall in a cup tie.  Now I had no idea this match was on otherwise I might have insisted I not be alone that afternoon. 

Anyway, a couple of Millwall fans came in and I served them with bottled bear.  Then a few more, then some more, then I was getting scared.  I don't wanna imply things that are out of order, but even I knew back then that Millwall fans had a reputation against - people of "colour" so to speak!  They weren't threatening towards me personally I have to add but the atmosphere was getting very raucous.  To the right of the bar was stairs leading to the bars restaurant and I saw a couple of lads go up there.  They broke into the champagne fridge ( I later found out) but when corks started popping I kinda guessed where they came from 

There was also a cake fridge infront of the bar, which of course was opened and cheesecake was ending up on ceilings and the full fronted glass windows took a cake battering too.  Anyways, I think I got very lucky and a lone Forest fan with the worst timing in his little life got extremely unlucky.  Just as a daring couple tried to get behind the bar to help the selves, a Forest fan walks past the windows! He is spotted and almost instantaneously, the entire pub make their way outside and off after this poor kid.  Was so gross, I had already pushed a button by then that led to the police station but doubt they would have got there in time, cos things were getting scary.

After they cleared off I saw police on horseback ride by so they were onto them but still, I was a little in shock at the time.  My boss eventually arrived and I went home and got to watch the situation on East Midlands news.  Apparently some Millwall fans barricaded themselves in a pub a few doors down and wouldn't come out (??) and there were a few skirmishes all over town.

Dunno why I started on this story but I felt and compulsion to get it out.  I wasn't hurt but mentally a bit shaky for a little while, and no I wasn't left alone again and I only stayed a couple of months more at that place before moving on.  Also this is an extreme case and I know it doesn't happen every match day but sometimes that pathetic aggression that a select few "fans" have spills over into craziness, not nice.

[TheChipPrince]

Anyway, a couple of Millwall fans came in and I served them with bottled bear. 

Bottled Bear?!  I'd be upset too!   

[AndrewT]

Most of the people who start trouble at football matches are just arseholes who would start a fight on any random Saturday night. Give them the safety of a large crowd of like-minded individuals and the semi-legitimacy of 'it's just football' and they're even more likely to kick off.