The short-stack pushes....

[thetank]

I'd probably call him, even though this is his first shove.

The critical question for me is, has he been below 6 big blinds at any point? Has he had 6 big blinds for the last round, but won a pot to stay at the same level, or has he just come down from 7-10BBs after leaking chips with limps and blinds, and this is a new low point for his stack.

Most peeps have a breaking point at which they will start shoving, and it's just with the tight passive players this point comes later than it possibly should.

He maybe had 7-10BBs last round and the round before that, and felt that he had enough of a stack to limp with, but now he's finally clicked onto shoving.

Having said that, if he open limped the last round with a stack of around 7 BBs in either the CO or BTN then I can find a fold here.

[kinboshi]

How fit is his girlfriend?  I think we need more information before we can make an informed decision on this one.


...and on a serious note - what do you do in this situation with a medium pair?

the girlfriend is not a factor in this decision. An eight pinter.

Had you had 8 pints?

Medium pair question is pretty similar to what you do with A10s here isn't it?  Probably a call against the vast majority, but this fella maybe not

That's what I was thinking, but I just wanted to clarify that it was the case.

[TightEnd]

How fit is his girlfriend?  I think we need more information before we can make an informed decision on this one.


...and on a serious note - what do you do in this situation with a medium pair?

the girlfriend is not a factor in this decision. An eight pinter.

Had you had 8 pints?

Medium pair question is pretty similar to what you do with A10s here isn't it?  Probably a call against the vast majority, but this fella maybe not

That's what I was thinking, but I just wanted to clarify that it was the case.

No pints.

[LLevan]

Are we playing to win this tourney or ladder, 27k with your button to come is enough to do some damage if we fail to hit what is probably a 3 outer or runner runner str8 possibilities etc. Personally I'm playing to win this tourney and I'm calling especially since we believe the BB has switched off in an attempt to ladder.

[LLevan]

On further reflection we could actually be ahead to Ace rag here if the button also believes he only has to get his raise past you since the BB appears to be looking to ladder.

[cia260895]

How fit is his girlfriend?  I think we need more information before we can make an informed decision on this one.


...and on a serious note - what do you do in this situation with a medium pair?

the girlfriend is not a factor in this decision. An eight pinter.

Had you had 8 pints?

Medium pair question is pretty similar to what you do with A10s here isn't it?  Probably a call against the vast majority, but this fella maybe not

That's what I was thinking, but I just wanted to clarify that it was the case.

No pints.

so if she was a member on blonde that would make her a BIRN (Blonde I'd rather Not) as apposed to a BILF

[Cf]

Even with the information given I still call here.

You've said he's limped a lot, but has he always been this short stacked? Even passive players realise they need to push at some point.

My range here is ATC. I don't think his is that, but i'm guessing 22+, A2+, paint. You beat a decent portion of that range, and are racing against a decent portion of it.

[MANTIS01]

A very easy fold for me. Even if I wanted to play the hand I'm never calling. Push or fold are you're only two options cos if the bb wakes up with a decent wired pair he will be tempted to get involved, and our hand really doesn't want that complication.

Anyway, this guy has proved to us what his character is like, and also what his current thought process is. He is generally limpy and passive and he's pissing his pants he might scrape into the money. He has thankfully arrived at the sanctuary of the button with a full round of potential knockouts in front of him....and we think he's gonna suddenly wake up and turn into a SLAG that pushes with A-rag. I don't think so. Of course anyone can spaz out and do something crazy, but the point is that's not something that is so likely for this guy. It would be out of character and as such it's a bad gamble for us to take on. Add to this the fact that because the money means something to them he's not gonna want to look a fool in front of his missus and have to drive home in deafening silence...so it's just more likely he has hand like A-K than A-rag imo. Far better gambles than this for your money, like raising the button next hand into at least one known ladder man.

This hand highlights the big difference vs internet play cos I would push very quickly on-line.

[George2Loose]

I think the key here is that there's no antes so he's more likely to wait then push light on the button.

from your description it's a fold

[AlexMartin]

in my thoughts

His range is narrow, narrower than most, if I call and lose I have 27,000 with an 8 handed round before I hit the blinds. Blast unopened pots to get back in it, but with far less fold equity so pick on all but the two big stacks.


correct thought process?

i got this far. Its all spot on. A10s is such a big hand u cant fold here.

EDIT: ppl that want to win and understand how important is is to have a big stack when the table are looking to ladder dont fold here.

[EvilPie]

If he covers you it's a possible pass unless you're really short.

As the stacks are it's a snap his arm off I'd say.

He might be tight passive but I assume he's not totally stupid. Surely he knows that he needs to be nicking blinds at some point very soon and there aren't going to be many better spots than this.

The BB is laddering and the SB is your good self who apparently has a reputation for being a tight player. I'm jamming atc from that button and even an uber nit is jamming top 25% at least.

You're miles ahead of his range so it's an easy call.

If he beats you just be happy that he would've made exactly the same move with a hand that you were beating.

[MANTIS01]

If he covers you it's a possible pass unless you're really short.

As the stacks are it's a snap his arm off I'd say.

He might be tight passive but I assume he's not totally stupid. Surely he knows that he needs to be nicking blinds at some point very soon and there aren't going to be many better spots than this.

The BB is laddering and the SB is your good self who apparently has a reputation for being a tight player. I'm jamming atc from that button and even an uber nit is jamming top 25% at least.

You're miles ahead of his range so it's an easy call.

If he beats you just be happy that he would've made exactly the same move with a hand that you were beating.

Nah Evil....that's what you know. You post your strategy thoughts on a poker forum for one and play on-line frequently for two, so this makes you much better than the average player you encounter at the casino. You prob push the button a lot in this situation and you know this is the correct thing to do. You know all this. But this guy doesn't have to be the retard people have said to only push tightish here. If it was 5-handed I think A-rag is possible...but here he still sees a choice...and he's a cautious limping into the money kinda guy.

Even if he is weak, although I can't see it, we aren't massive ourselves. Why call your chips into a flip situation when you can raise the limpers and folders and win their chips risk free any time you want?

[AlexMartin]

If he covers you it's a possible pass unless you're really short.

As the stacks are it's a snap his arm off I'd say.

He might be tight passive but I assume he's not totally stupid. Surely he knows that he needs to be nicking blinds at some point very soon and there aren't going to be many better spots than this.

The BB is laddering and the SB is your good self who apparently has a reputation for being a tight player. I'm jamming atc from that button and even an uber nit is jamming top 25% at least.

You're miles ahead of his range so it's an easy call.

If he beats you just be happy that he would've made exactly the same move with a hand that you were beating.

Nah Evil....that's what you know. You post your strategy thoughts on a poker forum for one and play on-line frequently for two, so this makes you much better than the average player you encounter at the casino. You prob push the button a lot in this situation and you know this is the correct thing to do. You know all this. But this guy doesn't have to be the retard people have said to only push tightish here. If it was 5-handed I think A-rag is possible...but here he still sees a choice...and he's a cautious limping into the money kinda guy.

Even if he is weak, although I can't see it, we aren't massive ourselves. Why call your chips into a flip situation when you can raise the limpers and folders and win their chips risk free any time you want?

GRRRRRR!!!!!! Mantis the guy has 6 bigs on the button on the final table! We have A10suited! thats all we need to know surely!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MANTIS01]

GRRRRRR!!!!!! Mantis the guy has 6 bigs on the button on the final table! We have A10suited! thats all we need to know surely!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen Alex, you can't get mad at ME for this guy's nittyness

It's not about what you SHOULD do. It's about what this guy's GONNA do. This is where internet skillz fail in the live game. The guy has just turned to his girlfriend....the person he has sex with....and told her how big his balls are....and he told her they are 5th place big. That's well small balls if you ask me. Now when he turns back to the table and faces all us mean bastards he ain't growing big bollocks and pushing with air. For all the reasons you find to push with marginal he will prob find as many reasons to be cautious. He's hoping for 5th Alex, he's not hoping to win.

At the final table last night, possible brag, I turned round to my mrs and said something about hammering every last one of these mother fuckers into the ground. I want 1st bad...so I push with all the hands you do. This guy isn't even thinking about 1st though.

He may have a suited K-Q and think it's the nutz, but I'd be surprised to see him pushing light here. Cos he knows he can achieve his 5th place ambition by folding. Anyway, even if we're marginally ahead why use your chips in this passive way at a nitty table? Tightend's surrounded by nits hoping to ladder, and it's the bubble, so the game is currently very very exploitable. If I'm putting 18k into this game it's going in raising not calling. Cos the way to beat a passive game is aggression you see. I will make that extra 18k in a couple of rounds without even having to show a hand. If Richard wants to be a better poker player he will ask himself why he can't bring himself to change gears in this type of situation and take down that easy money. Just taking a spin with a marginal hand cos YOUR range is pretty wide here is just making winning hard imo.

Internet poker makes you think what the guy said to his girlfriend is an unimportant factor. And the 6xbb is the most important factor. But it's not, cos that guy's still got to push dem chips over the line and that aint easy to do for a guy who only wants 5th, and doesn't know what 6xbb means. So don't Grrrrrr me dude

[gatso]

grrr him again alex